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Xbox One requires online connection, no fee for used games

Xbox One requires online connection, no fee for used games

Thu 06 Jun 2013 10:40pm GMT / 6:40pm EDT / 3:40pm PDT
BusinessHardware

Share games with people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days; each game can only be shared once

Without any fanfare, Microsoft has released a website detailing how the Xbox One will handle its online connection, second-hand games, and the all-new Kinect. Microsoft calls the Xbox One a "modern, connected device," and means every word of it: the console needs an online connection every 24 hours.

"With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies," reads the page explaining the console's online features.

"While a persistent connection is not required, Xbox One is designed to verify if system, application or game updates are needed and to see if you have acquired new games, or resold, traded in, or given your game to a friend. Games that are designed to take advantage of the cloud may require a connection."

Once games are installed from either a retail disc or Xbox Live purchase, that game will be available at anytime in the cloud. Microsoft says that "discs will continue to be a great way to install your games quickly," pointing to the retail disc as merely a delivery system for the game license and code. Xbox One lets up to ten family members log in and play a shared library of games on the console, so specific family members won't need their own game license. The system will allow trade, trade-in, and resell Xbox One games, but only if game publishers allow it.

"We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games," says the game license page.

"Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."

Finally, Microsoft tackles the updated Kinect, which has led to privacy concerns in some consumers. Though some games may require Kinect functionality, the peripheral can be turned off, even in the Xbox One's standby mode.

"If you don't want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say 'Xbox Off.' When the system is off, it's only listening for the single voice command -- 'Xbox On,' and you can even turn that feature off too," says the Kinect portion of the site.

"You will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded."

Microsoft has answered a ton of questions for consumers and the media, but those answers may not be the ones we were hoping to hear.

114 Comments

Paul Jace
Merchandiser

935 1,410 1.5
Well two out of three isn't so bad.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Paul Jace on 7th June 2013 12:02am

Posted:A year ago

#1

Richard DeBarry
Programmer

10 20 2.0
What about those of us who keep one in our camper for rainy days?

Posted:A year ago

#2

Curt Sampson
Sofware Developer

596 360 0.6
I don't know how many people are in a situation similar to mine, but the restrictions on used games are pretty major ones for me.

I rarely sell used games through shops, and even for purchasing used games, more than half of my transactions are private ones, rather than going through shops that are likely to be "participating retailers." Many of the people I trade with are folks I've meet on the forum for gaijin gamers here in Japan, where there's a great level of trust, but not all of the people I'd want to trade with are on my friends list. And of course once I've bought a used game from someone, it becomes unsalable.

So basically, there are now three new major blocks to buying used games in the way I typically do, all of which are likely to be common, and all of which will kill the transaction:

1. I need to have had the seller on my friends list for 30 days.
2. The game must never have been resold previously.
3. The publisher must allow the sale of the game.

This won't utterly kill the buying and selling of used games for me, but will come pretty close. And I suspect that this will be the same for many people, especially if publishers disable sale/trading for many of their games, which seems probable. Worse, it doesn't seem really to address the biggest issue of shops such as GameStop pushing used games (the vast majority of the used game market) because these guys are of course going to become "participating retailers." The publishers are free to address that through simply making the games unsalable/untradable, but that leads straight to utter killing the used game market.

In the end, it looks to me as if this gives MS and the publishers pretty much all they want, and the only real question is whether or not the potential loosening of the restrictions here and there is enough of a sop thrown to gamers that they won't utterly rebel. (I would not be surprised if it is; it's really hard to say if used games and trading are a big issue for a lot of gamers, or just for a tiny minority of people who happen to be noisy in the on-line forums.)

Posted:A year ago

#3

Andrzej Wroblewski
Localization Generalist

103 78 0.8
Popular Comment
GreedBox. Will not buy.

Posted:A year ago

#4

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Um.... they just lost any potential 360 owners who live in areas with crappy to no broadband service, it seems you STILL need to turn KINECT on to shut it off (i bet the system requires it be on when it's booted up just for brief tracking purposes BEFORE it's turned off). Restricting who you can lend games to so severely is... just dumb. I could go on, but I have a piece to write about this enforced evolution...

Posted:A year ago

#5

Carl Crawford
Studying Bachelor of Information Technology

18 19 1.1
Popular Comment
No buy

Posted:A year ago

#6

Kevin Patterson
musician

187 103 0.6
Half of the games I bought this gen were rented from gamefly and purchased from them as I liked it. The other half were bought new, and maybe a small percentage purchased used from Gamestop. What this means for me is that I will most likely either get a PS4 if they don't do this (which I suspect they will also do something similar), stick with Steam on PC as the prices are so great, and maybe get an Xbone one day for specific games, or not at all.

This really places a major downer on this next gen for me, and from the forums and outrage online, I am not alone.
IF Sony doesnt require the 24 hour or so connection requirement, thats a big feather in their cap.
I am eager to see what Sony does now.

Posted:A year ago

#7

Charles Ellis
CEO & Lead Developer

10 5 0.5
@Curt
I have no idea if Microsoft would be amenable to the idea, but perhaps an organization could be established to facilitate exactly this sort of game swapping, no-money exchange, or an existing organization could step up.
If that organization had a license from Microsoft in the same way that GameStop will, then it could still serve as a reasonable platform for trading titles between players who haven't met.

Obviously the major concern that Microsoft has is an opaque/distributed community of "game sharers" over which they and the publishers have no control. Requiring a license agreement to enable transfer of titles more than once certainly gives them that lever of control and it might be enough that they would support such an organization as long as it remained within whatever limits Microsoft set.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Charles Ellis on 7th June 2013 12:44am

Posted:A year ago

#8

Max Kaftanati
President

11 4 0.4
Even more reasons to move to PC with their Free to play games..

Posted:A year ago

#9

Byron McLean
Gaming and Indirect Channels

1 0 0.0
I know this sounds insane, and from your perspective it's probably more of a "Why should I have to do that" but do you have a smartphone with mobile internet that you could tether as a WiFi hotspot, enabling your console to authenticate to the cloud?

This is one of the things I think people are looking past, that just because it requires an Internet connection, doesn't mean it requires a data intensive session. Not really any different to how I've used my 3G mobile connection to authenticate with Steam on my PC at times.

Posted:A year ago

#10
Popular Comment







Posted:A year ago

#11

Aric Norine
Animation

13 19 1.5
Is the resale policy the same thing as the "give it to a friend" policy? They might be separate policies.

Selling games to Gamestop sounds permissible but not practical to combine with the 30-day friend requirement since buyers and sellers are annonymous. Because of this conflict I think they're separate policies.

Resale is likely at publishers' discretion whereas gifts are out of publisher control and limited through the 1 transfer 30-day friend scheme by Microsoft.

Posted:A year ago

#12

Cale Barnett
Animator

29 31 1.1
Sounds like they want it to be a digital-only console (ie PSP Go), but you can also use disc's to install/access your content faster.

Posted:A year ago

#13

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
@Kevin: I actually have a CD-i here (a Maganvox model) and two 3DO's as well. Yeah, they tried to enforce evolution and did SOME interesting things other consoles couldn't... but price point, a large but overall mediocre software library (although the 3DO had better games than the CD-i did) and (at least for the CD-i), an odd focus on the "edutainment" possibilities didn't help matters much.

I still remember the long CD-i infomercials that droned on and on about all those features - I used to sit, watch and wonder who'd want to buy something that took so long to sell in a TV ad...

Posted:A year ago

#14

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
Better than the worst is could be, not as good as it could be. That 24-hour or shutdown thing is going to be a huge pain in the ass. They'd better hope that the pirates work fast and break that mechanism or they won't be able to sell any.

Posted:A year ago

#15

Makeda De'Jene
Creative Director & Founder

15 26 1.7
These used games restrictions are BOGUS. You are only allowed to give it ONCE? I don't know about anyone else but, I have a circle of friends and we borrow each other's games constantly. Sometimes, we will even let each know what we're buying so we won't waste money (if it isn't a multiplayer title) and circulate it. So now we won't be able to continue this with the XB1 since we can only give it ONCE?

Posted:A year ago

#16
They failed to address rentals, which is what Im most concerned about, i dont buy used games, nor do I sell them, but I also don't buy new ones for consoles, or at least not more than 1 a year, however I have a subscription from a major rental/digital tv service provider allowing unlimited 4 discs out at once, so I can have between 1-4 rental games (depending on how many movies/tvshows discs/games i want) at any one time, play them till complete then send back, This way I pay a monthly sum to lovefilm, and in turn they pay a big fat pile of cash to publishers for the rights to rent it, everyone's happy, I'm concerned this used game/registered game thing will make the whole process more difficult, I don't want to have a rental game registered to me every time I rent it, then have to unregister it every time its time to send it back, I hope they provide special systems for rental titles, maybe special rental discs for rental companies so, when such a disc is used its not registered to you as an owner, and avoid this issue.

I am pleased you still retain the ability to sell games, however it would be interesting to see if they allow any kind of secure trading system for games you "give" on your friends list or not,(though I doubt its likely) preventing all but major retailer reselling is not likely to win them much popularity, specially at a time when consoles are under threat like never before, its true I dont do it, but I still want the ability to do so, you pay for something, sure you get a license, you dont own it in the sense you own a car, as you cant simply copy a car, but you DO own the license, and licenses are setup to get over the differences between physical goods and digital goods, they're not suppose to be an excuse for companies to unreasonably limit, what you can do with the license.

Afterall if you steal car, and get caught, you got to jail, on this basis if you steal a game or a movie (or allot of them) you either pay a huge fine or also potentially go to jail, so if they wish software to be treated more like physical goods within the limits of their nature, then so to should the rights you get over them, you cant copy the software, but you should be able to sell your license to use it, to anyone you want, in any way you want, and it would behoove them to provide a secure way to do this, if for a cut of the proceeds perhaps as a handling fee, and not just leave it for major retailers or forcing friends list loopholes to prevent easy second hand sales.

I don't need to be friends with someone for 30 days to sell them a car, so whats the justification for preventing these trades?, by restricting your ability to deal with a license in a close a way as possible as a physical object, they create a disconnect between the concept of ownership of a license and ownership of an object, which will only lead to more piracy, and a lack of respect for the concept of software as deserving equal rights to physical goods, the exact opposite of which software publishers should be aiming for.

The return for this unnecessary risk is a very tiny a chance people unwilling or incapable of paying for full price copies might be tempted to buy them or at least funnel the used game purchase and sale through a major corporate partner no fees, but the inferred benefit of maintaining a healthy closed-system with publishers and retailers remaining in the loop, exactly what Xbox One is designed for, frankly I think the good will generated as well as the encouraging of a healthy respect for licenses as legitimate digital alternative to traditional ownership, by maintaining used sales from user to user, far outweighs the determinants, and it is hardly a major source of income to risk all the potentially detrimental effects which going to such lengths to prevent it entails.

Especially at a time when the good will of users towards console manufacturers and their ecosystems, especially those pursuing traditional publisher models, needs to be at an all time high to fend off expanding competition from different types of devices, coinciding with a major new console generation release, in the current economic climate.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Alexander McConnell on 7th June 2013 2:06am

Posted:A year ago

#17

Justin Trautmann
Studying Digital Media & Multimedia Technology

24 35 1.5
Um.... they just lost any potential 360 owners who live in areas with crappy to no broadband service, it seems you STILL need to turn KINECT on to shut it off (i bet the system requires it be on when it's booted up just for brief tracking purposes BEFORE it's turned off). Restricting who you can lend games to so severely is... just dumb. I could go on, but I have a piece to write about this enforced evolution...
I can give a perfect example: the US Military.

I served eight years in the US Navy - half of that stationed on deployed ships. When you are deployed, you need entertainment. Consoles are one of the most robust entertainment mediums a sailor can have. The US Navy has a lot of ships... with a lot of sailors... who have a need for a lot of entertainment.

The thing about ships is - you do not always have the internet. Even when you do, that internet is not used for gaming (government network for government hardware). If this current generation of consoles leave a consumer, specifically a sailor, a choice between a console that does not require the internet and one that does... well, the XBone is going to be in a bad place.

I doubt Microsoft is ignorant of this - someone should be getting paid good money to crunch those sort of numbers. So, I presume Microsoft finds it acceptable to lose some good profits from one pot (deployed military personnel) because they will be getting it from somewhere else.

Right?

Napkin Math: US Navy has about 280 ships (rounded down). Each ship has at least 20 divisions (estimated - details exist for those interested), with each division having at least one console owned by an individual or communally used in one of their spaces - which is probably an XBox 360 (trust me). One can (arguably) presume a person or persons with a steady paycheck and money to burn will upgrade - so that is a possible 5,600 consoles lost to a competitor. If the XBone sells for $350, that is $1.96 million dollars to Sony (that WiiU controller is not ship friendly). Add in people who played on deployment and may get one for home, that number goes up. Add in the games they play (new, used, downloaded) - that is even more.

Posted:A year ago

#18

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Here's an interesting QI just got from a neighbor I ran into while taking out the trash (once you tell people you write about games, they stalk you, man... they stalk you!):

Does that Friends List need to be a NEW one created with a new Xbox One account (meaning having to make new Friends) or can you transfer your old contacts over or find older friends easier once you set up the system?

@Tim Ogul. Ha and ha ha. If you even THINK Microsoft will allow any sort of hacking on the console, I'm hoping you won't be surprised when they lay the hammer down on anyone who even totes a toolbox into the living room in front of that Kinect. Given that it can be turned off (but still needs to be plugged in), I can't quite fall for it NOT being able to read/see/report data while in standby mode.

I like my consoles simple and (mostly) silent. Perhaps that's why I'm so damn paranoid about this one... ESPECIALLY with this now breaking news about BIG Internet spying that's been happening with many major companies (MS included) at the center... O_O

Posted:A year ago

#19
I have to say I am amazed at how nearly every news service covered this news so quickly - did MS email a release to each, or is there a "closer" relationship on news circulation?

That conspiratorial relationship that has ignored the term "constantly connected" and not linked it to "connected every 24-hours"!

We have to ask the question - who at MS felt so scared by the current media (forum) coverage that rather than wait till E3 in a matter of days, rushed out this news on the online and used game situation (adding gasoline to the fire)!

This is a serious loss of cohesion of the Xbone message?

Posted:A year ago

#20

David Spender
Lead Programmer

129 54 0.4
I literally cannot believe this. I didn't think MS would be stupid enough to roll with these restrictions.

* Internet connection required every 24 hours
* Give games away to a friend only if publisher allows

These are unbelievable restrictions. Now I am genuinely scared that Sony will bow to publishers and announce the same or similar restrictions for the PS4. If they do, gaming will have died a little bit with this next generation. Truly a brave new world we are a part of - although its possible that's just me being high on reading countless NSA/Verizon articles.

Posted:A year ago

#21

M.H. Williams
Staff Writer

37 32 0.9
@Kevin The missing key there is Twitter. That's where I first saw the site. No press release (that I know of) on this one. That's why I mentioned that Microsoft launched the site without fanfare. I assume they were hoping to keep it quiet.

Posted:A year ago

#22

Roberto Dillon
Associate Professor

33 24 0.7
I really liked (and still do) my Xbox 360, Kinect included, but I will never buy a new console with these restrictions. I hope Sony will "just" focus on a great gaming machine for gamers...

Posted:A year ago

#23

Nicholas Pantazis
Senior Editor

1,020 1,467 1.4
Popular Comment
That's about it for me folks. I don't think this is a system I want to use. Luckily, I have tons of games to play across my PC, 3DS, Vita, Wii U, PS3, and 360 already. I may buy a PS4, but this device has very little appeal to me. I'll miss Fable and Halo though.

Posted:A year ago

#24

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
I can give a perfect example: the US Military.
I thought I heard about them having some "special solution" for military necessities, like some sort of special units or permanent unlocking codes or something. They definitely would catch some hell for "not supporting the troops."
We have to ask the question - who at MS felt so scared by the current media (forum) coverage that rather than wait till E3 in a matter of days, rushed out this news on the online and used game situation (adding gasoline to the fire)!
I'd heard that they were telling people they planned to release something like this before E3, so this is actually a bit late, rather than early. It makes sense too, because getting the information out now means that unlike with the last press conference, when they show off their fancy games and stuff at E3, the buzz will likely be more about that than about DRM and stuff.
I really liked (and still do) my Xbox 360, Kinect included, but I will never buy a new console with these restrictions. I hope Sony will "just" focus on a great gaming machine for gamers...
Bwahahahaha. Sony's policies might end up being better, but I really doubt they will be a lot better. It will probably work very much like this, they just haven't admitted to it yet.

Posted:A year ago

#25

Rick Lopez
Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 942 0.7
I got so much to say, yet right now I just want to say, why is all this even necessary. It just makes something simple that much harder. I find all of this unnecesary. To me its just DRM no matter how they dress it up.

There is absolutly no justification to this that is not control, monitoring and gathering data on were each game goes too.

What i cant understand is people who find any justification or good things about this.

Posted:A year ago

#26
@Rick
why is all this even necessary
Because the analysis say that MS will not be able to generate revenue from the conventional business model for consoles and this secondary path to revenue will generate a locked platform, audience dependency and a means to gouge more income from the user base and publishers - simples!

Edited 1 times. Last edit by kevin williams on 7th June 2013 3:54am

Posted:A year ago

#27
Thanks H. (no relation)

MS dependent on Twitter to get the message out is like Google using Bing to promote a new search feature!

Posted:A year ago

#28

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Hmmm... this article needs a title change already if this is true:

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/06/what-microsoft-will-and-wont-let-you-do-with-games-on-xbox-one/
"Q: Can I played used games on my Xbox One?

A: Yes. But there are restrictions. Microsoft said it will not charge any fee to trade or resell games, but it will permit third-party game publishers to charge a fee for used game transactions if they want. You can trade in games for cash and credit with participating retailers. Microsoft reserved the right to charge a fee in the future."
Which means that it will probably happen as part of some mandatory update or as a "natural" easing in of the fee as the console settles into its new user base and they get comfortable with the idea of limited use. Ten family members versus unlimited friends who can borrow a game? Yeah, well...

Posted:A year ago

#29

Daniel Meyer
Editor / Author

4 0 0.0
It's a sad thing happening to all of us with the next xbox and i strongly believe, that the PS4 will do the same thing. Though what I am most scared about is another story: That the people are just going to accept this, cause... well, what can they do? Not buying the consoles? Hell! They wouldn't be able to play those games they are looking anymore! So they will just accept it, grumbling a bit and continue playing... What's even more sad: I can see myself doing exactly that!

Furthermore I kinda look forward to the next Nintendo Direct on June 11th... Maybe we should put some more faith in Nintendo, since they are doing it right (in some ways at least).

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Daniel Meyer on 7th June 2013 5:04am

Posted:A year ago

#30

Dan Lowe
3D Animator

46 68 1.5
Popular Comment
Before people complain, ask how this compares to Steam, a service we all love?

Can you rent games on Steam: No.
Can you trade in games on Steam: No.
Can you lend games to a friend on Steam: No.
Can multiple members of the same family use the same game on Steam: Only if you're using the same account.
Does Steam need to be online all the time: You can switch to Offline mode, but doing this has to be preemptive, so people rarely do so. If your internet connection goes offline or if the login servers go offline while you're in Online mode, you lose access to your games.

So the deal here is that Microsoft is transitioning to a digital licensing model, the same as Steam, the same as iOS or Android. People have been saying for years that they're ready to get rid of disks; that it's so much nicer on Steam to just be able to pick a game from your library and launch it instead of having to switch disks out in the tray, but that said, when games start arriving on 50gb blurays, it does make sense to keep disks as a delivery method. If we really want the best of both worlds, disks as delivery, but not having to switch disks in the tray every time you want to play a new game, you have to have some sort of online verification.

Now if you guys can suggest an alternative way to do that, that eliminates the need for disk swapping, but also stops people from copying the same disk to 20 different hard drives, without requiring an online connection, I'd love to hear it.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Dan Lowe on 7th June 2013 5:21am

Posted:A year ago

#31

Rick Lopez
Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 942 0.7
Why not leave all this online connected registration crap... and raise game prices another 10$-20$ dollars... its the same shit. Look this isnt gonna fix shitty business practices and poor game design choices.... I mean common, Final fantasy vs has been in development for how long? As it is that franchise is bleeding money.

More money wont solve a thing. Its like pouring water in a bottle with a hole underneath. So im just gonna throw a few ideas around... i may be wrong or right, but is more money really the answer for alot of companies problems?

Prices of games have constantly been getting higher in the past an has that really solved anything? In fact more companies are going bust more than ever. So is a chunk of change from used games really gonna make a difference?

Honestly I cant see how this is gonna fix bad business practices. I cant see how making a game expecting to sell 12 million units to break even is a good idea. Why not design a game, over lower sales expectations and minimize the risk of losing the whole company if it bombs. Start small

I cant see how having a team of 600 people to develope 1 game will actually leave a company any profits. If the game bombs the company is screwed. Ive seen smaller teams make pretty incredible games using simple ideas, and make huge profits. i think more time should be spent on brainstorming ideas that work instead of developing ideas that dont work.

I cant see how companies make money on a game when they spend more money on advertising and marketing then what it costs to make the game, especially now when its so much easier with the internet, youtube, facebook etc. to get a message across.

Why cant they invest money on developing middlewere and have a library of assets that can be used across different games, such as character models, facial expresions, textures and physics properties already premade to simply make a game without having to do everything from scratch, like the equivelent of a movie studio props and film sets.

I cant see how this is gonna solve the bad business practices that have been going on, the lack of creativity and originality some companies have. i just think if companies worked on the idea and brainstorming of a game more, they can spend less on actual development. Look at Nintendo with there cardboard and paper mock ups of there controllers. Im talking hand written ideas and sketches in a room with a hand full of people, not developing a game with 600 people thinking it will automatically sell. Both "Fuse" and "Remember me" could have benefitted from a bit more brainstorming, both games had incredible ideas, but failed in exicusion. However I hope to see more from both games. Simple game play tweaks could have made them awsome.

I find absolutly no reason for all this registering and shit, nor all this you have to have a friend at least 30 days on your friends list to lend him a game... or all these requirments to just go to your naigbors house and hand him over a game just like you would a basketball or a powertool. All this exchanging registration keys and numbers and you can only give a game to a friend once? Seriously.

Plus now you have them all over you watching everything you do, they have a history of where every game has been... I cant see how all this is necessary to make a few bucks off used games... its more like DRM.

Yeah you can exchange it with family members, sell resell, lend.... but the differance is its a pain. Plus they are gathering history, data and even personal information about you.

NO THIS IS NOT NECESSARY.... the only thing that has changed is that you are buying, selling lending and using games, with a ball and chain attached to it and on top of that they are watching you. they know who you lend it to where its been and have the power to render the game useless when they feel like it. Plus it needs to register every 24 hours...

Hell no i do not want this.

Honestly after all this shit Im actually looking foward to Nintendo Announcements more than ever.

A chunk a change from used games isnt gonna fix the problems. Prices for games has been rising and what has that fixed... nothing. i just think developers should sit down and think more of what they are gonna do, before they do it.

Shit... this post came out pretty long. Been trying to make em shorter...

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Rick Lopez on 7th June 2013 6:15am

Posted:A year ago

#32

Sandy Lobban
Founder and Creative Director

314 206 0.7
@ Dan the difference is Steam and Valve never fail so badly on the marketing front. I'd be firing the marketing department for getting us to the point where this is the dialogue.

Posted:A year ago

#33

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Dan. A console is NOT a PC. Period.

I love Steam, gog, Desura, ModDb and other sites but there's a reason or four I don't want them running on my Vita, PS3, DS, Wii, Wii U, broken 360's and about 20+ other consoles I currently own.

Can you play Xbox One (or any console) exclusives on Steam? NO (unless they're coming to Windows 8 and above at some point).
PC gamers seen to be VERY hard-headed at not understanding this (consoles suck! just buy a PC and use Steam! - Yeah, And how the frak will I play The Last of Us or Halo Whatever on that?) for some reason I can't understand save for some sort of mental blockade that assumes superiority over anything that's not keyboard mouse controlled or yes, always connected.

Also, are you saying EVERY console owner or PC gamer who doesn't want to deal with DRM of any kind is a thief with 20 friends he or she will willingly give a game so they don't need to buy it? I hope not.

This whole license on a disc thing is just wrong at the end of the day outside the reasonable means of trusting those who don't give a hoot in hell about piracy as a hobby. It's bad enough we now have game demos that expire after a set number of plays (who thought that up?), so this new enforced trading scheme is going to backfire badly along with nearly every other thing the new gen is throwing up.

Posted:A year ago

#34

Stephan Schwabe
Multichannelmanagement

74 34 0.5

Posted:A year ago

#35

Klaus Preisinger
Freelance Writing

1,129 1,161 1.0
you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies
you know a company is in "full steam backwards" mode when things like that slip through the PR cracks.

The system will allow trade, trade-in, and resell Xbox One games, but only if game publishers allow it.
Talk about being passive aggressive, this is as close a "fu PublisherX" as was ever published. It also shows that MS still cares more about its knee-jerk consumers than its knee-jerk publishers :D

Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers
+
pointing to the retail disc as merely a delivery system for the game license and code.
=
anyone else interested in a new online venture aiming to annihilate Gamestop? Some sort of Fair Trade online platform which tries to cut in developers instead of investors?

you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."
or, if you really do have friends, you could permanently transfer them free of charge back and forth as often as you want. If I am reading that other stuff right.

When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded.
Xbox One, thy first spyware shall be named "The Nixon".

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Klaus Preisinger on 7th June 2013 8:05am

Posted:A year ago

#36

Simon Lawrence
Production Manager

12 4 0.3
Andreas - " Family members can share the game, no need to purchase multiple copies
This was a concern voiced on here recently. As i expected MS makes an allowance for family acounts - it appears to be console based, which is fine (who needs more than 1 console in the house anyway), but personally i would love to see this extended to cloud at some point. "

You clearly missed this bit:

"Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One."

Presumably there is nothing to prevent you from naming friends as family members thus they can always access all of your games.

Posted:A year ago

#37

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
@Simon: Hopefully there will be filters on a user's library. I mean, who wants their eight year old playing something from the M-rated digital stack?

Granted, the naming of additional users thing is the way around this... but that, I bet also comes with the implications of that Kinect seeing and recognizing little Timmy as he dinks around in front of the TV.

Yeah, that's going to make the pro-privacy crowd VERY pleased...

And as to the "(who needs more than 1 console in the house anyway)" question?

You're kidding, right? I know families that have two or three 360s in their homes and separate accounts because the kids range in age and don't all play together. Yes, sexist as it will sound to some - SOME girls don't like shooters and some boys don't like Dance Central.

Look, the general IDEA of what MS is doing isn't as big an issue as many aren't READY for this sort of enforced "evolution" and trying to make it all easy-peasy, snap of the fingers breezy is making me and others queasy and ranting most cheesy.

That and they'll lose the non-broadband base that squeaks by with their 360's and only plays games out of the gate and never get it back. Those are dollars going elsewhere, not nowhere, I'm betting...

Posted:A year ago

#38

Robert Nzengou-Tayo
Independent.

13 77 5.9
Equating a console to Steam is hardly fair. Steam exists on a PC. Gaming is only one thing I use my PC for. The internet connection is so I can check my mail, waste time on youtube, and drop two cents in a comments section. Steam as a gaming service only works because of that. I'm buying a gaming console to play games, not to do everything and also play games. There's plenty of places around the world that have terrible internet service and most of the gaming is done on consoles. Microsoft has decided they don't want to sell to them.

You have to admit that's a bit odd.

Posted:A year ago

#39

Justin Trautmann
Studying Digital Media & Multimedia Technology

24 35 1.5
Dan, I'll answer your question first - then internet long form after.

Alternative: Do what was done on XBox 360 and improve on it, without changing its fundamentals.

Internet Words: I don't believe Steam and XBone can be compared accurately. Each are attempting to provide a different service - while both hosting a different delivery method to that service.

XBone wants to be a complete entertainment provider - television, movies, games, internet. Steam wants to provide software and a means to play that software. While some of the XBone services offer the same as Steam - they are not improving or redefining that service in any positive or innovative way.

Steam is free. While its content is not - it services are. After I have bought a game, I can play that game with my friends without a service charge. I can also chat with my friends, in or out of those games, through a simple chat interface and a community section.

XBox Live is not free. Its content and it services require money. While a free (Silver) account allows me to access their game library and to keep my games patched - anything beyond that requires me to pay a subscription fee. My contact with friends is limited and I am unable to play the games I bought online. In addition, despite my subscription payment, I have business ads attempting to sell me a product OR spend money on content unrelated to games.

You also have the ever beautiful PC vs Console conversation. Without going too crazy detailed on it - the console is a home arcade. The PC is not. While online features have increased my player base for the console - nothing substantial has increased the ease or value of playing offline with friends in the same room on a single PC.

EDIT: Spelling and grammar. Sheesh!

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Justin Trautmann on 7th June 2013 8:49am

Posted:A year ago

#40

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Andreas: You must live outside the US. The 360 doesn't use a dial-up, the original Xbox didn't and I'll bet my two broken 360's that the Xbox One won't. So those data packets may as well be packets of sugar or salt. I understand there's a mobile download/upload solution as well, which will hopefully NOT require a Windows phone...

Also, there's this:

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/

which comes in VERY handy when looking up just what constitutes a good connection in the US. It's pretty surprising how awful most of it is here.

As for this:

"Well to be fair, anyone who can afford several consoles in one house, surely can shell out for a few extra licenses (if that is what is required)"

That's not fair at all, as it assumes that this particular family bought those consoles and games NEW (only one of the three was bought new from what I recall, and the mother did quite a bit of overtime to make that happen). You don't want to say that only those who can afford new should game, I'd gather?

So, nope - everything isn't the perfect scenario some think this new console will fall into.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Greg Wilcox on 7th June 2013 8:55am

Posted:A year ago

#41
They surely won't be able to deliver the same amount of consoles of the current-gen. Will they?
This is a huge drawback for all consumers and I expect sales forecast to plunge dramatically.
On the other hand, I am thrilled and eager to see how the hacking community will deal with these restrictions.

Posted:A year ago

#42

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
Also, are you saying EVERY console owner or PC gamer who doesn't want to deal with DRM of any kind is a thief with 20 friends he or she will willingly give a game so they don't need to buy it? I hope not.
Well no, but they also don't have anything to worry about because if they aren't thieves with 20 friends they give the game to then this new system won't really bother them much, aside from the 24 hour thing which everyone agrees is BS.
- Family members can share the game, no need to purchase multiple copies
This was a concern voiced on here recently. As i expected MS makes an allowance for family acounts - it appears to be console based, which is fine (who needs more than 1 console in the house anyway), but personally i would love to see this extended to cloud at some point. Family members living in other cities and countries - i'd gladly pay a little extra for a game to unlock that feature and play with my brother in SA.
It actually does sound flexible enough to allow you to use two consoles in the same house, so long as both users are on the family account and only one is playing at a time. The wording seems to suggest that you could install it in the living room and the bed room, play in the living room for a bit, and then play in the bedroom for a bit without too much hassle. you can't play on two consoles at once with a single copy of the game, but then I can't think of any 360 games where you can do that either.
To me, all 3 solutions are fantastic. They actions will cut down the abuse of copies and, in the long run, increase sales and revenues for us, the developers, those who actually make the games.
I mostly agree, although they do have to announce what they are doing with rental, because too many rent for that to just not be an option at all. It would be simply enough solved by just selling temporary licenses for a few days at a time, maybe expensive at first but reducing over time,

Posted:A year ago

#43

Anthony Gowland
Lead Designer

193 647 3.4
I'm still not sure I understand all that. Expect a lot of confused consumers who are unsure of exactly what they can and can't do with their games.

Microsoft seem to be FUDing themselves.

Posted:A year ago

#44

Dave Herod
Senior Programmer

527 786 1.5
@Rick -
Prices of games have constantly been getting higher in the past an has that really solved anything?
That's just absolutely not true. Games are the exact same price they were 20 years ago, which when you adjust for inflation makes them significantly cheaper.

Posted:A year ago

#45

Craig Burkey
Software Engineer

199 365 1.8
That's so broken the way it should work is:
*Games are playable offline after one initial activation
*If the machine is connected to XBL then log in to account via any means, smartphone,laptop,friend Xbox etc
-transfer the license to Person B on
A. Permanent basis
OR
B. A Set period eg 1 hour, 1 week, 1month etc with the understanding Person A can't play it unless Person B surrenders the license early or the time period expires
*Rental and Second Hand Shops sign up for bulk reseller status so they can have multiple licenses for the same game tied to the same account.

I reminded of the PS2 era, me and my brother both had PS2's and we'd go half's on new games... how's that work now Microsoft?(edit: I've just seen they allow family, suppose I should of read more before posting)

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Craig Burkey on 7th June 2013 9:59am

Posted:A year ago

#46

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
@Tim: which means Gamefly is effectively out of business as far as carrying rentals for the Xbox One (and possibly, PS4?). I'd gather they don't want to go out of business entirely (just yet), so it'll be interesting to see how they and other rental services handle this coming generation. I'd gather Microsoft isn't wanting to split anything towards that end of the market as the 360 winds down and "disappears" from memory, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to GF as their number of new releases dwindle over time...

Posted:A year ago

#47

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
We are talking about a LUXURY electronic device here. This is not even an essential like the mobile can be classed at these days

Ah. And therein lies another problem. Believe it or not, it's the OTHER way around in some households here where the phone is the luxury (some families simply can't afford the endless contracts and rely on pay as you go plans or land lines) and that games console is essential because it's used more frequently, so it pays for itself over time.

Posted:A year ago

#48

Gareth Donaghey
Customer Support Agent

34 46 1.4
Going to be interesting to watch their share prices over the next two weeks.

Posted:A year ago

#49
Justin, I would imagine MS will work something out for the armed forces in the states. The PR of not doing so is something they'd want to avoid, and the positive PR of doing so is something they'd want to garner. And respect to you and those like you who've served.

Posted:A year ago

#50

Joćo Namorado
Project Manager

52 23 0.4
@Dave Herod
@Rick -
Prices of games have constantly been getting higher in the past an has that really solved anything?
That's just absolutely not true. Games are the exact same price they were 20 years ago, which when you adjust for inflation makes them significantly cheaper.


As for MS strategy on this, I guess the ball is now on Sony's side. What they decide to do will impact on the choices consumers will make. If Sony goes for similar policies on the PS4 the play field will be leveled, but if they don't require recurrent Internet connection and are more flexible about game sharing, lending, trading, then the PS4 might look more appealing compared to the Xbox One when it's time to choose which to buy.

Posted:A year ago

#51
I bought a 360 over a PS3. I thank Microsoft for making any future decisions for me simpler, as there is now ZERO chance I'll ever consider a XBone (even for free). Over to you Sony.

Posted:A year ago

#52

Aleksi Ranta
Product Manager - Hardware

275 127 0.5
Come on Microsoft....where is the damage control interview?!?!?

Posted:A year ago

#53

Craig Page
Programmer

384 220 0.6
This settles it, I'm getting a PS4. Unless Sony messes up even worse, then I'll build a new gaming PC.

My internet connection works great 99% of the time, but I can't support and encourage all these BS restrictions Microsoft has come up with.

Posted:A year ago

#54

Stephen Richards
Game Deisgner

68 28 0.4
Setting aside all the objections made above, isn't there an obvious exploit of the friend-loan system?

The site says you can play games while logged in at a friends' house, so all you need to do is exchange accounts with someone you trust. That way you can play their games on your xbox while they play yours. In theory you can scale this up to a large group of people, if you're well organised.

Posted:A year ago

#55

Caleb Hale
Journalist

155 231 1.5
Microsoft doesn't necessarily deserve all of the blame it's getting for these restrictions - a fair share, but not all. It's very possible the big publishers of the industry have been pushing Sony and Microsoft to build their machines this way as a caveat to releasing titles on them at all. I don't see how the PlayStation 4 won't have similar restrictions, as the publishers certainly aren't going to let half the copies of the next-gen games they produce slide in a free-for-all used market.

No doubt about it, this is all about sucking in as much profit as possible. There's really no company - game-related or otherwise - that doesn't want to secure the maximum amount of profit. So, I don't understand those of you who are banking on Sony as some kind of refuge from this next-gen new world order.

It seems gamers of all preferences are going to be dragged into this next generation kicking and screaming.

Posted:A year ago

#56

John Bye
Senior Game Designer

480 451 0.9
This is all turning into a bit of a farce. The rules on transferring game licenses mean an end to selling your old games on ebay, renting games, or having a shared games cupboard at work (something that's common, and very valuable, in the games industry). If you want to make some cash off your old games, your only options now are to sell them directly to a friend or take it to GameStop or another "participating retailer". It's the worst of all possible solutions, clamping down on customers' rights and cutting off independent games stores and dedicated second hand stores from used game sales, while continuing to allow a handful of big high street retail chains to push second hand sales over new stock, and with the option for individual publishers to charge a fee if they want to.

Even their clarifications aren't entirely clear. At first the "ten family members" rule sounds incredibly lenient and frankly open to abuse, but then they say "any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time". Does that mean that if your kid's playing your copy of Forza in their bedroom you can't play Halo in the lounge? It sounds like it, which would make this feature more robust but much less useful for families with multiple consoles. Or do they just mean that two people can't both play the same game at the same time from the same person's games library?

Posted:A year ago

#57

Anthony Chan
Analyst

90 73 0.8
Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.
I LOL at this. Microsoft has finally grown some balls. I have been waiting for a company to stand up to likes of Gamestop. Not too long ago, Sony was rumoured to have included some kind of licensing for disc-based games where the games had to be tied to one machine. Gamestop immediately countered with some "fighting" words: they threatened to not stock the PS4.

I am waiting for the fighting words now, what say you Gamestop??? If PS4 now gains the confidence to tie disc-based games licenses to one machine; will Gamestop refuse to stock both PS4 and XB1? I think Gamestop (and all other used game/rental retailiers/providers) have a serious dilemma. If they boycott the 2 major consoles what will they sell??? Steam already dominates PC distribution (gamestop selection of PC games is pretty limited, and the shelf space given to Blizzard is bigger than the rest of the shelf space for other PC games).

TL;DR Gamestop is slowly looking more fudged... :D

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Anthony Chan on 7th June 2013 3:03pm

Posted:A year ago

#58

Morville O'Driscoll
Blogger & Critic

1,573 1,418 0.9
Gamestop is slowly looking more fudged
Gamestop... And every other retailer that deals in second hand games. Anyone willing to take a guess on how many independent retailers exist because of the profits made from second-hand sales? Every argument that uses Game or Gamestop's second-hand profits to show how they abuse the system can be used for the indie retailers, too. I dare say, though, that unlike the big chains, the indies won't have the capital to muddle through and survive. And then there's the stores that exist solely due to second-hand sales, like CEX ( http://uk.webuy.com/ ).

Either way, the consumer is going to have less choice in where to buy products, and there'll be a knock-on effect of stores closing, and people losing their jobs.

The only - and I do mean only - plus-side to this second-hand sales restriction is that it might end up with new-game prices being reduced. If prices from publishers don't come down after all this has kicked in, there's something seriously screwed-up with this industry. Oh, wait...

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Morville O'Driscoll on 7th June 2013 3:19pm

Posted:A year ago

#59

John Bye
Senior Game Designer

480 451 0.9
Anthony, Morville, did you read the whole website? It says "game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games... Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers."

In other words, GameStop can still sell used games, but your local independent game store probably can't, and the end user can't sell their games on ebay. Also, individual publishers can opt to block used sales entirely, or charge retailers a fee for transferring the license. Like I said, pretty much the worst possible solution.

Posted:A year ago

#60

Rick Lopez
Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 942 0.7
@Dave Herod -
In my opinion, game prices have risen, Add the initial disk purchase (which used to be 50$, now its 60$), plus DLC, plus ingame purchases, plus used games license fee's(which seems to be on the way), online passes, season passes and the many ways companies are looking to penny the crap out of the consumer... id say yeah, the price of games has risen. Purchase Borderlands 2 or Mass Effect 3, purchase all of those games DLC, plus add any ingame purchases you may make. Its well over 100$ dollers per game.

However you may opt to not buy any of the DLC. In some cases if its extra weapons or items, I dont care too much. But If you like a game you might want the complete expirience. In which case DLC would be important, such as the case with Mass Effect 3 and Borderlands 2, which have extra content for story and single player campaign and characters with differant abilities and story to them. in ME3, if you dont get any of the Single player DLC you miss out on at least 20 hours of gameplay, and alot of memorable story elements and a new character with his own story.

In many cases I wait till the game drops in price, purchase it at 20$ and get the DLC, but still the price sometimes goes to over 60$. The most ideal scenario is to purchase an Ultimate Edition or GOTY edition. Which range from 40$ to 60$

And you can never tell if the developer withheld content in order to sell it to you later, or they left it out because of time constraints. And I just feel all these methods they come up take take more money from the consumer isnt gonna fix the real problems as I mentioned in my post above. Raising prices hasnt done it in the last 10 years, keep rasing prices and charging more for stuff, less people will buy games, simple as that. I myself find that I have to be more criticle about my gaming purchases. I cant afford every game I want.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Rick Lopez on 7th June 2013 3:46pm

Posted:A year ago

#61

Rick Lopez
Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 942 0.7
Developers fighting for used game pocket change, won't solve a thing. The price of the retail products has risen more and more ways to penny the crap out of the consumer has emerged in differant forms. What has any of this solved? Nothing, because marketing and developments costs also rise. The ideal thing would be to make more money and keep marketing, development costs and sales expectations(forecast) down.

@ PC Gamers and Steam users

PC games are not console games. There are many differences, the same rules dont apply and here are just a few of my opinions. Just please dont take it at heart. I really have nothing against PC games. I just think console and PC games are a differant approach to games.

I prefer console gaming because its just more practical. Pop the game in, turn on, press start. you don't have to boot up anything, have software and hardware issues, you don't(or didn't ) have to install anything. So easy kids can do it.

Steam users go ahead and say, "oh but we have always been dealing with registering and DRM for years and blah blah blah...". You steam user gotta understand, us console gamers never had to deal with that.

How can any of you steam users think that registering a game, through a necessary online connection can be better than purchasing a game, that you can play anywhere, lend, resell whenever you want without the need for an online connection. Plus I can take it to a friends house play dont have to worry about hardware compatability issues, hardware and software driver updates or an additional online connection that my friend needs to have.

We dont pay 3000$ for a gaming rig to run crysis 3. We dont have to worry about online connections, DRM, registration keys, inputing personal info and filing out personal information forms to register. We dont need permission from anybody to play, lend, sell or buy used games.

A PC isn't family friendly. I really dont know anybody who sets up a PC gaming rig in there living room, play PC games with there kids, friends and family. We use gamepads because having multiple keyboards and mouses to play a first person shooter with friends in the same house in the living room is not practicle and I dont see how a mouse and keyboard will be a practicle controller for a 10-12 year old kid. Console gaming is also cheaper in terms of hardware.

I do have a few gadget geek friends who have there laptop rigged to there TV and home stereo and they stream content, music and movies, but its hardly a reason for me to play games.

So I find all this XboxOne mumbo jumbo completely and totally unecessary. What now?I have to have a friend signed on as a friend in my account for 30 days before lend or give him a game? I can only give a game once to any one person? Seriously???? WTF!?

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Rick Lopez on 7th June 2013 4:17pm

Posted:A year ago

#62

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
I slept on this, went out in the rain and hit a game shop around here just to ask around for about two hours. Consensus from the little people who get overlooked by these companies: Gaming isn't a "luxury", as it's been called (and that's the third time this week I've heard this term used) - it's a formerly affordable HOBBY that's now going to price out even more and make some here wonder why the numbers aren't bigger than they should be in some areas.

I can't wait to see the "family" pics on those new game boxes: Celebrities, Industry analysts, and company folk all smiling and holding controllers in funky poses in fake-looking living rooms...

Posted:A year ago

#63

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
@Greg
which means Gamefly is effectively out of business as far as carrying rentals for the Xbox One (and possibly, PS4?).
It does, definitely (from what we know so far), and if they don't have a plan for that already then they need to figure one out because the ability to use Gamefly (or a similar function) is definitely something they should support, but I don't see why they couldn't if they wanted to. It seems like it would be a software side thing that they could mess with any time they wanted. The simple solution is to just allow for temporary licenses that last for fixed amounts of time, and which established rental places could purchase in bulk. Now if XBone does screw Gamefly, there's not much they can do about it on their end so they'll just have to deal with being a retro service. I know consumers really want that functionality, and Microsoft does too, but they don't technically owe Gamefly anything.

And btw, for those who say "I rent all my games, if Microsoft/Sony kill that market then I won't buy their system," well what do you imagine they care? They don't tend to make much, if any money on you owning their console, they make money on you buying games. If you rent, well the rental place pays them some money, but each person that rents it likely ends up sending pennies back to Microsoft, so really, if they lose your business entirely, what have they lost?

@John,
but then they say "any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time". Does that mean that if your kid's playing your copy of Forza in their bedroom you can't play Halo in the lounge?
I don't think that's how it works. If so that would indeed suck, and not make a ton of sense. What I believe it does mean is that you can install Forza and Halo on both systems and chuck the discs if you like, and you can play Forza on one machine and Halo on the other, but that if you're playing Halo on one machine you can't also load it up on the other. Think of it like a physical lending library, when you've "checked out" the game on one device, it's not there for anyone else to "check out."

Also, if you think Microsoft is going to allow "authorized resellers" to be "authorized" without paying back to them and/or the publishers in some form you're kidding yourself. One way or another, used games will have lower profit margins.

@Morville
Either way, the consumer is going to have less choice in where to buy products, and there'll be a knock-on effect of stores closing, and people losing their jobs.
Meh. I remember when my town had four or more competing small game stores (mostly chains, but a few indies), but Gamestop bought them all out and either kept them as Gamestops or shut them down. Gamestop is not good for friendly competition. Will people lose jobs at Gamestops. Yes. It happens. They can hang out with people from Suncoast, Tower Records, etc. Business moves on.

@Rick,
PC games are not console games. There are many differences, the same rules dont apply and here are just a few of my opinions. Just please dont take it at heart. I really have nothing against PC games. I just think console and PC games are a differant approach to games.
Not anymore.

Both new consoles use mostly PC architecture and have functions similar to a livingroom PC rig. They are designed to have a very family friendly and easy to use interface, no hassle, but the way they function as gaming platforms will be more like a PC than any previous console generation, the XBone is essentially little different than a Mac running Windows 8, a single unified and optimized hardware configuration, but still pretty much a PC.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Tim Ogul on 7th June 2013 10:28pm

Posted:A year ago

#64

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
@Tim - good points. Still, I keep thinking about that master plan from Office Space, where all those pennies the trio of employees were shifting from that company added up to millions thanks to a bit of miscalculation. I used to work in an indie game shop with a GS and EB Games nearby (when both were separate) - they BOTH used to send us traffic because we had a better selection of classics and something like a third of their employees shopped with us. My, how times have changed...

Also, while consoles are like PC's even more, at least you can crack open a PC and tinker with it. Do that with a console and go online and that zap hammer comes down fast. I'm betting MS will be particularly heavy-handed on hackers, as they've invested too much into this to let some determined types become nuisances for longer than a few hours (that Kinect being on all the time even when commanded "off" is supposed to be a "deterrent" I bet)...

Granted, the average user isn't opening a thing and doesn't care, but that difference is an advantage PC owners get that's fairly huge when it comes to creating and modifying content (and sharing that work later on)...

Posted:A year ago

#65

John Bye
Senior Game Designer

480 451 0.9
Tim - "I don't think that's how it works."
That's how they seem to describe it on the website, but like I said, it could just be poorly worded.
Tim - "Also, if you think Microsoft is going to allow "authorized resellers" to be "authorized" without paying back to them and/or the publishers in some form you're kidding yourself."
That's what they say on their website. "Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games."

Posted:A year ago

#66

Dan Lowe
3D Animator

46 68 1.5
I thoroughly agree that Microsoft messed up their messaging by the way. I'm sure even they would admit that, at least internally. What's frustrating though is that in my mind, that's all this is: Murky communication, rather than actual issues with the design of the platform (although clearly many of you would disagree).

I'll be interested to see what this issue looks like a year or two from now. It reminds me a lot of the arguments back in 2005 about backwards compatibility and how everyone was outraged beyond words at how you would or wouldn't be able to play previous-gen games on your next-gen hardware. Eventually, under pressure, the hardware manufacturers added it in (to varying degrees), and only a few people actually used it. Most people put one game in to check that it worked and then never used it again. Within six months it was a non-issue in the press.

I kind of foresee a similar trajectory with the 24 hour online check ins. I think a lot of people are complaining about the principle rather than the reality. They're thinking about potential worst case scenarios rather than applying it to their actual situation. I'd imagine that almost everyone that's beside themselves with grief and anger, shaking their fists in the air at the injustice of it all, all have their Xbox 360s connected 100% of the time already.

Perhaps it's that people associate always online purely with DRM, instead of looking at the benefits. As I've said, there's a huge upside in that you'll no longer have to swap discs whenever you want to play a new game. You'll have a library and you'll be able to switch between games on a whim. Also we can't play down the importance for developers. At the start of a new generation, the hardware requirements establish a common baseline for developers to work upon. Knowing that the entire installed base is going to be online, allows developers to add features that they might not otherwise. People are asking for game experiences from the next-gen that can't be done on current-gen platforms, and I think if people are patient, you're going to see some experiences that take advantage of always online in some surprising ways.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Dan Lowe on 7th June 2013 6:02pm

Posted:A year ago

#67

Luke Giddings
Programmer

22 5 0.2
Dan Lowe
Does Steam need to be online all the time: You can switch to Offline mode, but doing this has to be preemptive, so people rarely do so. If your internet connection goes offline or if the login servers go offline while you're in Online mode, you lose access to your games.
Minor Point, but I feel it should be clarified - this is actually FUD. As an experiment, I just unplugged the network cable from my PC then started up steam. It automatically started up in offline mode. I'm pretty sure it has been like this for the last few versions of steam. It was originally a big problem with Steam, but Valve have been doing a lot of streamline and sort out that problem (hint - they did actually see it as a problem). I think you might have to have valid user credentials on the machine - ie, you have logged in previously - and at some point those credentials might invalidate - but I'm also pretty sure we're talking weeks if not months, rather than 24hours.

Cheers

Posted:A year ago

#68

Dan Lowe
3D Animator

46 68 1.5
Luke: Fair enough, they might have changed it since I last used it. If so, good for them.

Interested to know how they stop people from going into offline mode, then allowing login access elsewhere. Potentially you could have multiple people playing off the same account. Perhaps they see it as a non-issue considering that everyone has their PCs always online anyway.

Posted:A year ago

#69

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Interested to know how they stop people from going into offline mode, then allowing login access elsewhere. Potentially you could have multiple people playing off the same account. Perhaps they see it as a non-issue considering that everyone has their PCs always online anyway.
No, they don't, Dan. Not everywhere.

I'm on dial-up now thanks to issues in this area. I had to get a Steam account a few years back when I bought a used game that ended up NOT working at all thanks to DRM (neither the seller nor I knew of this and after I got my money back, I ended up contacting a few stores and online sellers and warning them to pull their copies of the game or they'd have issues with returns).

I didn't use Steam for a few years after than until I finally picked up a used laptop and was able to hop out to a decent wi-fi connection nearby. Moved the account over to the laptop, fired it up, downloaded updates and now it's a lot more active, as are my more recent gog.com and Desura accounts. All of them have offline modes and even if you're off for a while, Steam still lets you play offline without connecting (with the caveat being a long update if you're offline and miss a few mandatory ones).

Anyway, the platform design isn't the issue with a lot of people - it's the implementation without consideration that it shuts out even some who can meet the requirements who have certain concerns that still have not been addressed.

That and... why would anyone want to buy a console they can't resell, trade or give away if they end up not liking it? This in of itself makes me wonder if they're going to just become a cable company we just rent a box from, as those can't be sold or traded in the open market either...

Posted:A year ago

#70

Morville O'Driscoll
Blogger & Critic

1,573 1,418 0.9
As far as I can work out, Steam downloads Offline Credentials to the computer that's Offline - this is why it occasionally breaks, or doesn't work properly. But this is also why it can't be taken advantage of - there's some behind the scenes verification of those credentials. The XOne probably uses the same system, but on a shorter delay - perhaps there is no real way to make an Offline mode work consistently,so rather that go with the long period that Steam has, which sometimes crashes, they went with a shorter time-frame which won't crash.

Posted:A year ago

#71

Tom Keresztes
Programmer

682 335 0.5


BTW: not many publishers left after THQ went bust.

Posted:A year ago

#72

Dan Lowe
3D Animator

46 68 1.5
Here's a question: Would people have been happier if Microsoft had done away with discs altogether, gone 100% digital distribution, and essentially said, "we're making a Steam Box"? Same exact idea as the Steam Box, same functionality and licensing, just with Xbox branding.

Posted:A year ago

#73

Christopher Thigpen
Lead Producer

47 92 2.0
No matter how their writer's swing it. This version of Xbox is ant-consumer. I have purchased both Xbox systems at their launch and have proudly and confidently poured countless dollars into their systems. But, this is where I get off the train. Not only am I not sold on the system, but I am appalled by the near sightedness of the executives.

If I own a physical copy of a game, then I would expect to be able to do with it, what I want. Lend it, sale it, give it away, or trade it. Without any penalty. If the system was merely digital downloads only, then I would expect to NOT be able to do these things. What defines a console is the physical product.

Trying to cash grab and circumvent a consumer/fan system of trade, sell, lend that has existed since the dawn of console gaming is purely obtuse and repugnant.

My 1,000's upon 1000's of dollars spent on Xbox has ended. You can probably expect my subscription to XBL lapse too.

As a consumer, as a businessman, as a game developer, I am no longer inclined to work with m$.

Posted:A year ago

#74

Rick Lopez
Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 942 0.7
@ Dan
Here's a question: Would people have been happier if Microsoft had done away with discs altogether, gone 100% digital distribution, and essentially said, "we're making a Steam Box"? Same exact idea as the Steam Box, same functionality and licensing, just with Xbox branding.
Good question. I would absolutly be ok with this ONLY IF: I can do like music and movies, in which I can have an MP3, MP4 or WMV format file that I can use copy, store and use on any machine I want, save a hard copy to any media I want and be able to install access the game without the need of an internet connection and DRM free.

I also DJ, I collect music. I buy my music from very specific places and I really enjoy the fact that I can buy the music and do whatever I want with it, DRM free. I can change it to different formats, have multiple back ups of it play it on any machine platform. The problem I have with video games is this ball and chain scheme they have going on.

Cause if they expect me to pay money and still not actually own it, then thats where piracy becomes more attractive. I advocate against piracy, but these ball and chain method to trap and tie down the honest consumer, only serve to make piracy , hacking more attractive. Because the pirate doesnt have to worry about all the technical, drm, registration, ball and chain schemes the paying costumer has to deal with.

My reason to purchase music legally stems from getting the music from a reliabal source. i like loseless PCM formatted audio such as AIFF-C or WAV so nothing gurentees that a pirated copy is from a good source. Alot of MP3s are ripped from vinyl or up converted from a bitrate of 128 to 320 and at least me.... i care about the quality of the sound. If ripped from vinyl it has all the noise, or it can be ripped from youtube and gone through numerouse compression schemes. The same could apply to video games in which a pirated copy can have bugs.

So in a perfect world thats how id like it to be.

I mean i dont know, If you or anyone else has differant feelings please share.

Posted:A year ago

#75

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
@ Greg, I wouldn't mind having more indy game stores, but that's just never coming back, it's all the big names in most markets these days. If there's any niche for indy game stores it's the same one filled by record stores, a place to buy really old, authentic games and game paraphernalia at high "rarity" mark-ups, rather than buying new product or "new" used product.

And yeah, the new systems won't be as open as a PC, but they will also be less of a hassle. I bought Saint's Row 3 on Steam and even six months after release it crashes my computer every time I load it (even though I have more than enough juice to run it). I doubt that would happen on a console because they'd know exactly what specs it was using. I's also got what seems to be a very effortless interface, fast start-up, plenty of features that a PC can't match, but underneath it all it's still mostly a PC, so when it comes to gaming, it's trying to be as close to the best of both worlds as is possible, but that means that there are at least a few costs on both sides.

I'm still playing a lot of things on my PC though.

@John,
That's what they say on their website. "Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games."
If I were trying to parse that with a skeptical eye, I would make three notes. They say that they don't charge a transfer fee per transfer, but it doesn't explicitly rule out some sort of fee to earn the right to be an "authorized reseller." Gamestop may have to chip in several million up front for that privilege or something. Second, Microsoft might have strict requirements on what "authorized resellers" are allowed to do, do example they might make it impossible to resell games within the first few weeks (although I suppose you could buy them in), or the reseller might have to follow strict pricing guidelines. Third, it says Microsoft isn't charging a fee, it says nothing about whether the publisher is allowed to charge a fee. I could easily see EA charging a fee for used copies of their games, and wouldn't blame them one bit if they did.

@Greg,
That and... why would anyone want to buy a console they can't resell, trade or give away if they end up not liking it? This in of itself makes me wonder if they're going to just become a cable company we just rent a box from, as those can't be sold or traded in the open market either...
Have they said you can't resell the console? I can't see any advantage for them in that. If you aren't using the console then they are just losing money and they only have to gain by having a more interested player buy it off of you. They would need to have some way to "scrub" the contents before transfer, but I see no reason why they couldn't.

Posted:A year ago

#76
I am a steam user, I own hundreds of games on steam, but I also own a PS3 and Xbox 360, which when I play games on them I do in a totally different, way I'm not keen on the always on requirement, I put together the PC and chose to buy my games on steam, taking the advantages of the digital distribution over their online requirement, however when I put togerther the PC, I wasn't required to play online only, I chose to, I rarely play online on either PS3 or Xbox 360, I usually load up certain games, play them through, don't use the net once, additionally I use the PS3 to play blu-ray movies, and xbox 360 sometimes for lovefilm, if my pcs busy doing something else, sometimes I use lovefilm on ps3 to, but ultimately its a choice.

What MS are failing to realise that even though many western gamers in practise, will find they can live with such restrictions, after a while not even noticing them, they are taking away the hardware owners right to choose, if you pay good money and buy a console ITS YOURS, its not a piece of software its a peice of hardware, and restricting it arbitrarily because the manufacturer thinks their benefits to you outway your negatives, is both arrogant, and simply wrong, and worse there are many people in rural or other areas with much worse net access, and plenty of countries without reliable bb speeds, they're excluding them entirely, infact not just this its going to cost MS more for all the servers and capacity, just for a chance the users will use more paid services and more people will sub to Xbox Live to get them.... this may well have happened regardless, as the current console gen has shown, so what exactly are they paying all the extra money whilst loosing all the extra business for? If I was a Shareholder I'd be most suspicious, elliminate piracy, as if, hackers will probably make a piece of sotware you can buy for your Raspberry Pi, which will pretend to be the Server, it may take a while to be stable, but itll work nicely in the end.

MS will try to find ways around it, maybe expiring software miltestones or something hackers will release counter-updates faster, the hackers who do this probably wont even play the darn thing, theyre just doing it for a laugh, and because they can, and pirates will cash in on this, among prolific pirates(otherwise known as students), there will be little to no change in piracy potential, and with little pcs like rasberry pi for 30-50 quid (if you buy associated bits for it as well as the device), tools to hack consoles will require neither specialist devices, nor expensive pc's for the end-user.

Much like cars are always being stolen, you cant get rid of thieves from software either, and enticing recently ex-students to want to pay until they get use to it, wont start with giving them less choice over bits they pay for, overall MS are risking to much for to little benefit, bad move.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Alexander McConnell on 7th June 2013 11:29pm

Posted:A year ago

#77

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Have they said you can't resell the console? I can't see any advantage for them in that. If you aren't using the console then they are just losing money and they only have to gain by having a more interested player buy it off of you. They would need to have some way to "scrub" the contents before transfer, but I see no reason why they couldn't.
That's my big, stupid over-speculation activated.

Still (and bear with me here), I'm sure each console will have a unique ID that can indeed be shifted to a new console, but only if the original console is defective in some way, under warranty and returned for a replacement model. Perhaps Microsoft is trying to keep the number of hacked consoles down to a minimum, as it seems that each one needs to be activated online with a full account setup and log in.

Since it requires that Kinect to be plugged in at all times (even when "off"), there's a good chance that it too is linked to the console (and can't be swapped out unless a replacement is also linked to the same account). If you think about it, it's a great way to stop theft or at least make sure a stolen console or one that gets toted around is VERY easily tracked by Microsoft. Also, given the license thing, it's possible that we'll see some line in the EULA and TOS that say a console can't be transferred or sold (much like a cable box) unless the seller goes through a few hoops (deactivating the old account, having the buyer activate a new account in order to get the console online).

Yep, I'm over/under thinking this a lot, but that's what happens when the info coming out on the official side is so sparsely doled out and just baffling when it's read.

Eh, we'll see - it's probably not as bad as I'm thinking... but I can't see Microsoft just letting systems flood the market and not want to know who's buying them up.

That and It looks and sounds really good when you can say the following to a room packed with investors and media:

"We have 100% of our systems online and 100% Kinect activation!" (cheer! applause!)

Posted:A year ago

#78

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
Still (and bear with me here), I'm sure each console will have a unique ID that can indeed be shifted to a new console, but only if the original console is defective in some way, under warranty and returned for a replacement model.
They could do that, but I don't see the point. Your access to your games is tied to your Live account, since you can own several systems in the same house all on the same account. If you bought a second console, I see no reason you couldn't sign it up with the same Live account, copy all your games over, etc. If you want to ditch the old console, you'd have to run some "scrub" function to remove your Live account from it, essentially resetting it to default, and at most register this action with their online service. That done, they would no longer associate that piece of hardware with your account, and someone else could freely register that hardware onto their account.

Now of course they could put further blocks in the way of that process, but I don't see what would be in it for them, they WANT to to get rid of any console you don't have a use for, it's the exact opposite scenario from used games.

Now, if someone did steal your console, it would give them whatever access to your Live account that you leave open by default, but that would give you a chance to reverse-locate the console somehow, unless they decided to scrub it, and they could probably give you tools to remote-disable it, like a cell phone. Even if they wiped the account, the system likely has a unique identifier, so if you reported it stolen, they could likely track it any time it was put online. The internal serial number would stick with the console, but would not automatically unlock any games you own.

Posted:A year ago

#79

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Now, if someone did steal your console, it would give them whatever access to your Live account that you leave open by default, but that would give you a chance to reverse-locate the console somehow, unless they decided to scrub it, and they could probably give you tools to remote-disable it, like a cell phone. Even if they wiped the account, the system likely has a unique identifier, so if you reported it stolen, they could likely track it any time it was put online. The internal serial number would stick with the console, but would not automatically unlock any games you own.
That's more or less what I was getting at (eventually, heh), but I also feel that they just don't want certain people (well, anyone) disassembling the console and tinkering around with it (another reason for the mandatory check in process). As for "getting rid of" a used/old One - I'll shut up until we all get the official word. I'm about five years ahead of Microsoft in terms of what to do with that box if it stops working (it's a sort of mandatory "recycling" process I'm thinking of).

Granted, they can't at all stop someone from buying a console and taking it apart UNLESS... they make it so you need to jump through hoops to acquire one. Remember, they ARE trying to change the way games are bought and reused - so why only stop at the media? Make the box only for those who plane to use it as made (of course, that's a "good luck with that, mister!" thing at this point in time...

Posted:A year ago

#80

Benjamin Seeberger
Writer/Translator

28 18 0.6
The day is coming when playing a game is going to be as troublesome as walking through airport security.

Prepare for it!

I've read through all the comments, and I'm still struggling with the why of the what.

Xbone:
1. Can only play a secondhand game if the previous owner bought the item new. You can give your game to your friend, but they can't give it back.

2. Must be online.

3. Cannot sell games by yourself anymore; must use official retailer. (No more garage sales, craigslists sales, or ebay sales.)

4. No more independent retailers.

5. Saved games are on the cloud, not local - meaning without an internet connection, you cannot access your saved games.

6. Every game must be installed. You can't play it from the disc.

7. You can only play a limited number of games at the same time, as the storage for each Xbone is around 500 gb, much of which is
taken up with MS system files.

8. You cannot play Xbox or 360 games on the Xbone. Sorry. This includes any games you may have installed from Xbox Live Arcade.

9. I'm assuming because you are required to be online every 24 hours, that also means all of your achievements and owned games will be for all to see, all the time. For those who don't care about privacy, I'm sure that doesn't really phase them. I imagine they might have privacy controls, but I haven't read anything about this yet.

10. Ten family members can play the games you bought - but I believe only one family member can play a certain game at a given time. So two family members can't play the same copy of Halo together - meaning you would need two Xbones and two TVs and two different accounts if you wanted to play against each other online with other players. Which seems logical, but also with the advanced tech the Xbone brings also seems kind of silly.

A couple of extra stipulations:
1. The XBone microphone cannot be turned off and is always "listening". (Whatever that means.)

2. From Microsoft's website, it appears that publishers will determine the used price of a game, not the seller. Furthermore, publishers will determine whether that game can actually be resold or not.

3. If you have not logged in for 24 hours, access to your games will be cut. You can still watch TV though! (I'm a bit confused.)

4. Because of the online persistence, you can expect games at launch to be buggy and unfinished. Improved over time. This is just something that will most likely occur; not because of the system, but because developers can get games out faster knowing they can improve the bugs over time. But it also means you need to be always connected, because you will be getting a lot of updates, since the Xbone updates games without actually asking you. What this also means is that depending on the size of the update, you may need to update your bandwidth allowed in your internet service.

5. Indie games have to sign a contract with Microsoft. While there are few details about this right now, I'm going to assume right out of the gate that means any games published for the Xbone stay on the Xbone. So choose your devil carefully!

Welcome to the future of Cloud Gaming! And don't forget to bring an umbrella!

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Benjamin Seeberger on 8th June 2013 4:08am

Posted:A year ago

#81

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
I guess the fact that the new family program now means some Xbox One games will now play like an NES game with multiple battery backup save files on a cartridge HAS to comfort some, right?

Posted:A year ago

#82

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
Granted, they can't at all stop someone from buying a console and taking it apart UNLESS... they make it so you need to jump through hoops to acquire one. Remember, they ARE trying to change the way games are bought and reused - so why only stop at the media? Make the box only for those who plane to use it as made (of course, that's a "good luck with that, mister!" thing at this point in time...
Well, they don't want people tampering with them, so I'm sure they do various system checks occasionally to make sure that the Os hasn't been messed with (not that it can't be broken, but it would make it trickier), but I don't see what that has to do with reselling. When you first turn the console on, you'd need to register an account to it. If you scrubbed it and gave it to someone else, they would have to register their own log-in. I don't see why they'd want to make that difficult.

Remember, the box will likely cost them money, they want you to buy one used rather than having to make another one themselves (or at least they don't much care).

@banjamin
1. Can only play a secondhand game if the previous owner bought the item new. You can give your game to your friend, but they can't give it back.
That doesn't seem how it works. You can loan it to a friend, but he has to give it back to you before you can pass it along. Only one copy of the license is allowed to be around at a time.

I also think that you can resell a game infinitely, you just need to do so through the proper channels. I also think they still have local saves, but it backs up to the cloud. The backwards compatibility thing doesn't really seem "sinister" to me, they have a different hardware architecture, so games written to run on the 360 just don't work on the XBone. To make them work they'd either have to tweak the software on each game, or include redundant hardware in the console, which would drive up the price. They've decided it wouldn't be worth the cost.
9. I'm assuming because you are required to be online every 24 hours, that also means all of your achievements and owned games will be for all to see, all the time
I don't see why it would be any more or less accessible than the current methods.
10. Ten family members can play the games you bought - but I believe only one family member can play a certain game at a given time. So two family members can't play the same copy of Halo together - meaning you would need two Xbones and two TVs and two different accounts if you wanted to play against each other online with other players. Which seems logical, but also with the advanced tech the Xbone brings also seems kind of silly.
That's no different than on current consoles, and if anything it's slightly easier, since you don't need to move the disc from one to the next. They could probably even allow multi-system access via software if they wanted to, like with a party game, but I'd see no reason to expect it from games where you traditionally need one game copy per console.
4. Because of the online persistence, you can expect games at launch to be buggy and unfinished. Improved over time. This is just something that will most likely occur; not because of the system, but because developers can get games out faster knowing they can improve the bugs over time. But it also means you need to be always connected, because you will be getting a lot of updates, since the Xbone updates games without actually asking you. What this also means is that depending on the size of the update, you may need to update your bandwidth allowed in your internet service.
That's no real difference from current consoles.

Posted:A year ago

#83

Andreia Quinta
Creative & People Photographer

224 589 2.6
There's just one thing I missed to understand after all the comments and the article itself; How does the fee work?
"We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games,"
If I insert a used game disc will I get a window prompting for payment of x amount as per requested by the publisher?
Or does the participating retailer pays that fee before placing that game on the shelf?

color me confused.

Posted:A year ago

#84

Eric Leisy
VR Production Designer

117 127 1.1
I'm all for connected devices, and things that make new and creative uses of online technology; but creating draconian rules like what they are doing sucks. Not planning to get one of these devices.

Posted:A year ago

#85

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
If you scrubbed it and gave it to someone else, they would have to register their own log-in. I don't see why they'd want to make that difficult. Remember, the box will likely cost them money, they want you to buy one used rather than having to make another one themselves (or at least they don't much care).

Here's my point you missed because I forgot to make it (lol): Maybe account control won't COMPLETELY be in the hands of the owner at all, but in Microsoft's. In other words, YOU can set up an account, but only THEY can shift the data to another console or help in a new user setting up their own account if they allow for used system sales. Again, I think they want more control of the process so they can keep track of everything a user does as well as any new user paying the price of a NEW system (as they prefer with games, correct?). But again - speculation central here!

Reselling consoles to some extent (at least for the launch and perhaps launch window) might fall under some license agreement stuff, so the EULA and TOS should make for required reading I'm betting. Who reads the entire one here? I think I've read two this year for different games, but that was during long installs and I was bored...

The closer they get to 100% penetration (which will happen if they know exactly who is online and registered), the better it looks for them (and at lower numbers early on, to boot). They can "win" the race slowly as more and more people who agree to the license terms add into the user base of already dedicated users.

So it won't be a mad dash to 40 gazillion like the 360 at all, but getting new users in handfuls per week that grow in number as the console builds its reputation and library. I think it will be a case of "slow and steady wins the race", then a huge burst of momentum once the skeptics and haters who can buy in start returning with tails between their legs and begging for that new Halo or whatever AAA they couldn't pass up.... Maybe.

Call me crazy, but when you control that much of the experience, you may get hate from those that won't buy in... but it seems that Microsoft is simply ignoring those folks.

On the other hand, you'll also get a pretty hard to top marketing campaign because you're automatically catering to a happy user base that will buy anything you throw at them and those who fall for those testimonials about how awesome the new system is...

Posted:A year ago

#86

Morville O'Driscoll
Blogger & Critic

1,573 1,418 0.9
but only THEY can shift the data to another console
It's too damn early, and I'm only on my second cup of coffee, but isn't this what they already do for Live users who move country? I seem to recall issues with students who came over to the UK to study, went back to the States, but couldn't access the Live accounts they set-up here. If that's the case, they're already most the way to what you suggest.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Morville O'Driscoll on 8th June 2013 9:50am

Posted:A year ago

#87

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
@Andreia,
If I insert a used game disc will I get a window prompting for payment of x amount as per requested by the publisher?
Or does the participating retailer pays that fee before placing that game on the shelf?
No info on that yet. I'm sure there will be a whole release around that later. It could come in just about any form. They could send you an access code, or Gamestop could include a card with an access code in the box, or it could just prompt you with the shopping screen you'd use to buy downloadable games, who knows? I would assume they'd try to make it as easy as possible to use, but we all know how hit or miss that ends up being in practice.

If the retailer pays the fee for us, then we would expect to see prices similar to what we have now. If we're expected to pay the fee once we get home then retailers would have to lower their price to account for that, because who buys a used game for $50 when they know they'd have to pay a $15 fee to play it, when they could just get it brand new for $60 (unless Gamestop's opened that copy and just called it "new").

@Greg,
Here's my point you missed because I forgot to make it (lol): Maybe account control won't COMPLETELY be in the hands of the owner at all, but in Microsoft's. In other words, YOU can set up an account, but only THEY can shift the data to another console or help in a new user setting up their own account if they allow for used system sales. Again, I think they want more control of the process so they can keep track of everything a user does as well as any new user paying the price of a NEW system (as they prefer with games, correct?). But again - speculation central here!
Well I mean you'd be registering the system with Live, you would need to log in (and then do so again every 24 hours) to register that "this system belongs to Greg, any games Greg owns can be played on here." If you scrubbed the system and sold it to someone, then it would boot up to the default registration system, and then connect to the Live servers and they would have to say "this system belongs to [whomever], etc." There's no reason it couldn't be completely automated, take like five minutes or less, and be fairly easy to do. And of course when they do this it will register the unique ID code of that specific XBox, so they will know that Greg no longer owns "XBone #46456461," but now [whomever] does.

It sounds like you're imagining shipping the hardware off to Microsoft or a Microsoft authorized reseller to run it through this sort of process, and maybe it will be like that, but I really don't see what's in it for them. With games they want to control the transfer of the games to limit piracy. If you can play the game without even needing the disc in, there's all sorts of ways people could pirate them without some serious DRM. You can't really pirate the hardware, it's a physical thing.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Tim Ogul on 8th June 2013 9:45pm

Posted:A year ago

#88
Isn't this also a nice way to provide live metrics to the MS authorities .

Oh lookie, this is the X amount of games folks like to trade, Y amount of folks purchasing from day one.
We need to boost XYZ....

I dont think this will help dent or limit piracy in the main, and the overall protectionist policy might jsut harm the overall brand, which did extremely well with the XBOX 360.

Maybe the console manufacturers have some secret faustian pact, that every 5 years they will rotate the console crown.
First playstation, then nintendo then microsoft xbox and now back to playstation...or something like that :)

Posted:A year ago

#89

Jamie Knight
International Editor in Chief

54 22 0.4
so what about the GreedStation 4 who will have exactly the same business model? The only console NOT doling this is the Wii U, and this is clearly evident from the Spawn of Satan, ( sorry Electronic Arts ), spitting their dummy out and taking their ball home and not allowing Nintendo to play any longer.

This has been going on in the PC market for years but no-one wants to compare the similarity of this business model to one PC gamers have endured for years on platforms such their precious Steam ( how dare you, quick everyone...he thumbed his nose at Steam vote this lunatic down! )

You want to throw your dolly out of your pram? Then throw it in the direction of the worst thing to happen to the videogame industry since the fall of Sega as a hardware manufacturer, Yes, EA that would be you again.

Posted:A year ago

#90

Jamie Knight
International Editor in Chief

54 22 0.4
really? and you are president of 'gaming company?' ( the same goes for all these 'so-called' journalists, developers, CEO's and lead artists etc etc who post non-stop on this website as if they are actually part of this very industry. )

it is with the transparency of ridiculous statements such as this that all is revealed.

Posted:A year ago

#91

Jamie Knight
International Editor in Chief

54 22 0.4
again, direct your loathing to the correct target or not at all

this is not a platform manufacturer's problem or fault. Your gripes lie with the publishers and developers.

Posted:A year ago

#92

Keldon Alleyne
Handheld Developer

448 419 0.9
I don't agree with blocking preowned, but I want them all to block them just to see how gamers respond.

Posted:A year ago

#93

Klaus Preisinger
Freelance Writing

1,129 1,161 1.0
Microsoft might not be to blame about an individual publisher's decision to disable preowned. However, Microsoft is very much to blame for enabling their platform, which they designed 100%, to support such decisions. Microsoft will have to deal with the fact that if Publisher X disables pre-owned, part of the blame will be put on them.

If we say that the WiiU attractiveness was lowered by EA's decision not to release games for it, then Microsoft will have to take into account that their console's value is also diminished by EA games not supporting resale.

What we are seeing now is rather unsettling. It might just be that Microsoft's push into TV is not so much a bold action taken by Microsoft, but instead a rather desperate reaction to seeing where publisher pressure their platform to position itself games-wise.

Posted:A year ago

#94

Alex Bunch
Proof Reader

94 106 1.1
Hackers bring down Xbox Live. You now own a gaming brick.
MS goes bust. You now own a gaming brick.

As for their shitting on consumers and the second hand market I wonder how the EU will react? They've already ruled that customers have a right to sell their digital copies of games and have EXACTLY the same rights as physical copies.

Posted:A year ago

#95

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
It sounds like you're imagining shipping the hardware off to Microsoft or a Microsoft authorized reseller to run it through this sort of process, and maybe it will be like that, but I really don't see what's in it for them. With games they want to control the transfer of the games to limit piracy. If you can play the game without even needing the disc in, there's all sorts of ways people could pirate them without some serious DRM. You can't really pirate the hardware, it's a physical thing.
Act-ually, Tim... it's a little more nefarious than that because I'm thinking unless there's a physical defect or internal issue that requires it, consoles won't NEED shipping anywhere thanks to the always online connection where updates and such are automatic and much faster to get people using the console with little to no downtime. Get it now?

Updating and shifting of accounts would be done as it is now, but with much tighter regulations to basically lock out anyone trying to pull a scam or otherwise cause havoc. Yeah, it's 1984 times ten in an entertainment console (and my imagination), but if they didn't take any more draconian steps to insure they lock in who they WANT to own a console at then end of the day, they just open themselves up to all sorts of hell once any hacks start coming up that are hard to whack-a-mole down.

And yeah, it's nutty speculation (and, THANKFULLY the end of it from me for now 'til after the show - I need my remaining brain cells for the mind-numbing press conferences), but it sure as hell beats the one rumor on NeoGAF about MS "paying off developers" NOT to show PS4 versions of their games (yeah, right... that's a whole can of ethics-shaped worms right there even crazy I wouldn't touch...) O_o

Posted:A year ago

#96

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
@Greg,
Act-ually, Tim... it's a little more nefarious than that because I'm thinking unless there's a physical defect or internal issue that requires it, consoles won't NEED shipping anywhere thanks to the always online connection where updates and such are automatic and much faster to get people using the console with little to no downtime. Get it now?
I think I get the situation you're describing, I guess I'm just not getting where that's "nefarious." I mean, you sell your console to some guy, he buys it, he registers it, it's his, where's the problem? I mean, it seems like a perfectly simple and reasonable business relationship to me, what would they be doing that's somehow "wrong?"

Posted:A year ago

#97

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
Well, the nefarious part is having to deal with Microsoft under those circumstances IF (and I say IF) they suddenly say their new consoles can't be resold through the usual channels (similar to what's probably going to happen with used games). That licensing agreement has terms that deftly slide in a part about the company having the rights to change anything being implemented at any time. So, it's not "wrong" by current consumer standards, but it would be seen as so under the big corporate thumb.

In other words, a shift as to how games are made sold traded and played all in one box.

Again, if they can keep the amount of consoles coming to only those who want to use them as intended (it'll be slow and steady and growing), what's to stop them from NOT wanting to sell them just to say they've met some vaporous target (or fall a few hundred thousand or so units under a vaporous target) only to see (or not see, actually) a percentage of those sold units NOT go online? I'd bet a penny that they'd rather see word of mouth move units over some folks making a reseller's profit on ebay Microsoft won't see a dime of for snapping up a load of pre-orders and making themselves rent money on each one in the usual post-launch frenzy.

Granted, they (currently) can't tell you what to do with that Xbox One at all once you buy it... unless they treat it as a cable company here would one of their boxes where you need to sign a contract and pay a fee to "keep" it.

Of course, that brings up the problem of what happens should you cancel your account, drop dead or whatever. But then again... all you (or your surviving relatives) would have is a liquid black box that's useless... unless Microsoft kept sending notices to reactivate it if it's left plugged in and someone did at some point just to stop the calls and emails coming (only to have to go through the process of having the console blanked automatically from afar as soon as Kinect didn't recognize the new owner, ha ha)...

As I said, it's less the user having control of the console - it's "ownership" dictated by the corporation under its terms if things go the way it's looking...

Posted:A year ago

#98

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
Well, the nefarious part is having to deal with Microsoft under those circumstances IF (and I say IF) they suddenly say their new consoles can't be resold through the usual channels (similar to what's probably going to happen with used games).
Yeah, but I don't see why they would do that. What do they have to benefit? The benefits of enforcing some control over used games are fairly obvious, but I don't see what the benefits are in getting involved in the hardware resale market. Why have nothing to lose by having someone sell their console or buy a used console, and micromanaging the process would just be more hassle/cost on their end. What is their motivation?

You seem to be indicating that they would be chasing higher unit sales than they truly deserve, which would have some value for them, but not as much value as having an active customer owning the unit who is actively buying games for it, over an inactive unit that isn't making them any money.

Granted, they (currently) can't tell you what to do with that Xbox One at all once you buy it... unless they treat it as a cable company here would one of their boxes where you need to sign a contract and pay a fee to "keep" it.

Of course, that brings up the problem of what happens should you cancel your account, drop dead or whatever. But then again... all you (or your surviving relatives) would have is a liquid black box that's useless... unless Microsoft kept sending notices to reactivate it if it's left plugged in and someone did at some point just to stop the calls and emails coming (only to have to go through the process of having the console blanked automatically from afar as soon as Kinect didn't recognize the new owner, ha ha)...
That could tie in to "discounted" systems. If they offer a system for, say, $200, but you need to buy two years of Live service for $5 per month or something, then they could make sure you didn't try to back out of that deal by shutting down your system if you cancelled the live payments. I don't see anything wrong with that though, if you agree to the deal then you should comply with it.

Posted:A year ago

#99

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
@Tim: If you have one, think of that cable box in your living room. It's in your home and probably has a few too many beer rings on it if you're a beer drinker, but it's the property of the cable provider, period.

You agree before it arrives or after it's set up to rent it from them as well pay (through the nose) for whatever content you watch or play on it (as casual games are now a part of many cable packages).

Try to unplug and sell it to another user, and while you CAN do so (naughty, naughty!), that person can't watch anything at their home unless they ring up the cable company and get their own account.

But they'll also want that box you kind of against the TOS and EULA sold back in their possession because it wasn't yours to sell in the first place. So you'll probably receive something in the mail about that at some point or get a nice few phone calls...

Apply this to the Xbox One SHOULD Microsoft have the loopy idea of going this All in one-Der! console route full-on.

I think they'd have to at least studied the silly idea of adding a no resale line to the user agreement for that new non-console simply because they want to know just who is using EACH one they sell... er, lease.

To clarify my above post - I believe they'd rather see sales INITIALLY roll in only from people committed to the console and new business model. Those ALWAYS active Xbox One units will help in the moving of future units (which will seemingly be a huge number of people who meet and agree to the licensing terms that grows even more over time as more and more new users step up ans sign up).

I'm already hearing about people thinking they're going to make a mint on pre-order resales of new Xbox One consoles and I think MS is going to try and put a boot on that neck hard this time. I'm crazy enough to think they want a 1:1 sale/use rate or as close to possible on this one (another reason Kinect is MANDATORY this time out), NOT just roll out NPD numbers that don't reflect ACTUAL users.

Imagine an interview with a Microsoft exec in the future (hell, at this point you need a TARDIS to find one to interview in the present!) where he or she can say: "Well, we know what our sales are and that every console is in use and Kinect has a 100% penetration rate in those households. Sony can't say that and Nintendo can't say that about their products, can they?" At that point, he or she gets up, drops the microphone and walks off stage or out of the room (after smugly smacking some reporter's recorder out of a hand with a "Yeeeeah!" or something)...

Tracking... tracking...

I can't see them killing Xbox One game rentals off, then traditional pre-owned games and other currently "normal" console activities and NOT think of a restriction SO nuts that it would actually work in terms of showing how serious they are that they ONLY want people who want to use their new system and services.

And again, controlling the console end means less to no hacking from the user side and a very EASY way to track anyone who attempts to do so. Once more, it goes back to that All-Seeing (Night Vision, Too!) Eye/Monkey Ear No Evil/ Heart Monitor/GPS/Who's in the Trunk Trying to Sneak Into the Home Drive-in Theater? monster called Kinect.

I can see it now: Poke around inside at your leisure to see what's under the hood and plug it in once your done. Since it won't work without a online connection/Kinect-ion combo and required checking in, I bet it sends packets out screaming it's been tampered with (one more reason for all those new servers) and seconds later *snip!* there's a dead console in your possession and they dare you to call a hotline and complain about your account being wiped.

I think they want a setup like with some card controlled cable boxes or ones where if they're disconnected or that card is removed, they stop working and you're asked to reconnect the unit or sometimes call a service number and speak to a rep about that suddenly shut down signal.

Look at it as a NEW way of doing things on their end, not a step back. Remember: to Microsoft, that would be seen as "backwards"... They want to move forward, full non-Steam ahead...

Posted:A year ago

#100

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
But they'll also want that box you kind of against the TOS and EULA sold back in their possession because it wasn't yours to sell in the first place. So you'll probably receive something in the mail about that at some point or get a nice few phone calls...
Yeah, true enough (although I think the cable box I had before this most recent one was mine to own, or at least they'd never come after me for it, the current one's a leaser though).
I think they'd have to at least studied the silly idea of adding a no resale line to the user agreement for that new non-console simply because they want to know just who is using EACH one they sell... er, lease.
Yeah, they could, I'm just not seeing the motive. To Microsoft, the box doesn't matter. It's just a tool to get you buying games. They might lose a few bucks if you sell it to someone else, they might even save a few bucks, but either way they probably don't care. With a cable company, they're typically leasing you that box, charging you a monthly fee just to have it, and they want to do the same to the next guy, so if you sell him the one you have, they are out money.

I just don't see that it would be in Microsoft's interests to push that capability, that's "mustache twirling" evil, not "making money" evil.

But again, if they do have any sort of installment plan deal that would result in a much cheaper console, I would expect them to have conditions about what you can do with that console over the period of the deal.
Imagine an interview with a Microsoft exec in the future (hell, at this point you need a TARDIS to find one to interview in the present!) where he or she can say: "Well, we know what our sales are and that every console is in use and Kinect has a 100% penetration rate in those households. Sony can't say that and Nintendo can't say that about their products, can they?" At that point, he or she gets up, drops the microphone and walks off stage or out of the room (after smugly smacking some reporter's recorder out of a hand with a "Yeeeeah!" or something)...
Ok, well first, I don't know that that argument would be a huge selling point over traditional unit sales, not enough to piss people off to make it. Second, I suspect that however the PS4 works, Sony will have those numbers too. Third, even if they are Big Brother about it, I don't see them having 100% active rates. People that play infrequently will likely leave their unit completely off, not just in standby. I do this with my PS3 because it wastes a lot of energy just to keep that red light going. At best they might be able to claim 98-99% of their units are up, but not 100%.
And again, controlling the console end means less to no hacking from the user side and a very EASY way to track anyone who attempts to do so.
I definitely see them doing system checks on those daily check-ins to see if you're running any noticeable hacks. Of course, the pirates will try to figure out ways to fool even those, like they've done on most Sony hardware by this point, but it's an uphill battle. They will definitely be scanning for pirates, no doubt, but I don't see what that has to do with reselling consoles. If they make it difficult to buy a console, activate it, hack it, and then sell it to someone else, then the "pro" hackers will just hack them before activating them, or take in units owned by the customer, hacking it, and sending it back (assuming they have hacks that would actually bypass standard sweeps).
I can see it now: Poke around inside at your leisure to see what's under the hood and plug it in once your done. Since it won't work without a online connection/Kinect-ion combo and required checking in, I bet it sends packets out screaming it's been tampered with (one more reason for all those new servers) and seconds later *snip!* there's a dead console in your possession and they dare you to call a hotline and complain about your account being wiped.
Oh, sure, I assume that's a given. How could they not at this point? Of course the primary goal of the hackers would be to hack the basic "dialing in" function so that it either wouldn't need to do that at all, or that it would always send an "all clear" signal even if it was anything but. I don't have any of the skills to do that sort of thing, but I think it'd be common sense for them to not even try to log in a console they'd been messing with until they were fairly sure it wouldn't rat them out.

Posted:A year ago

#101
MS Box one could actually be a subsidised tool of the NSA. cha cha chaaaang!

Posted:A year ago

#102

Klaus Preisinger
Freelance Writing

1,129 1,161 1.0
We should not overlook that the publishers, such as EA, Ubisoft and Activision, have experience on the PC market, while Sony and MS have not. (Or rather limited experience in the case of MS).

On the PC, publishers already did each and every thing now being railed against on the console. Suffice to say, the PC still exists, PC conversions still exist, even more than a few years back.

Big publishers do have the numbers from their PC ventures. They know what to expect in terms of lost sales due to players being angry. Publishers know what to expect in term of increased long term sales at discounted prices. Which is currently $0 on the consoles due to the used game market. We should assume that if publishers are quiet now, it means they did the math and it was good. Sure, you lose customers on one end, but if those costs can be recovered and you end up with more control over your product, then it is a win, right?

The only ones gambling here are Sony and Microsoft. If everything behaves like a PC, the only reason for a console are exclusive titles and gimmicky features. How long until the likes of AMD, Intel and nVidia start wondering why they build hardware for Sony and MS?

Posted:A year ago

#103

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
MS Box one could actually be a subsidised tool of the NSA. cha cha chaaaang!
Hey, if the NSA cuts $50 off the price they can check my Dance Central score any time they like. ;)
We should not overlook that the publishers, such as EA, Ubisoft and Activision, have experience on the PC market, while Sony and MS have not. (Or rather limited experience in the case of MS).
I think it's fair to say that both have experience in the PC market. I mean, they both make their own PC hardware, they both port inhouse software to the PC. Sony publishes many popular PC titles such as Everquest and DCUO. They both know what they're doing on the PC about as well as anyone who isn't Valve.
We should assume that if publishers are quiet now, it means they did the math and it was good. Sure, you lose customers on one end, but if those costs can be recovered and you end up with more control over your product, then it is a win, right?
To a point. I think the developers are hedging on this one. Both the XBone and PS4 could "pull a Wii U," and the major publishers would probably be fine. Most of their titles are being developed for all consoles, so if their next-gen sales suck, they'll likely still sell plenty on the current gen and PCs. Games further in the pipe can be adapted to whatever systems are still in demand. People will be playing games on something, so even if the next gens take a while to take off, they'll have something to play on and the publishers can wait. It doesn't show that they have confidence in the new systems, just that they're willing to give them a shot. If it backfires, it'd only be Sony and Microsoft that would be hurt by it, as they might have to do some serious rethinking.

Worst case scenario, assuming they didn't risk putting an "escape hatch" to some of these features in the hardware, they might have to release entirely new hardware without them, and/or do a product recall to overhaul existing units, but I don't see that as being terribly likely.
How long until the likes of AMD, Intel and nVidia start wondering why they build hardware for Sony and MS?
That was what Sony was thinking when they were designing the N64 CD drive, hence the PSX, but I don't think there's really the drive for that anymore. The big PC hardware makers do fine with what they do, and consoles are a really tricky market, it probably wouldn't be worth it for them to try and elbow into the game at this point. This is very likely the last console generation, the next generation they will just be straight PCs with friendly OSes that link to your TV and play PC games using comfortable controllers. You can already pretty much build an XBox One of your own, buy the Kinect 2 for PC, etc., and the only reason it's not an XBox One is because Microsoft says so.

Posted:A year ago

#104

gi biz
;,pgc.eu

341 51 0.1
Microsoft logo is a guarantee of low quality, malfunctioning software. The logo carries a lot of meaning, warning buyers about the hard limits on what you'd normally consider your normal, rightful activities, inflated hardware prices and such.
The logo can be easily recognized because of its high contrast, and because it reads "Microsoft" in bold characters. As to say, you've been warned. If in spite of the mark's warning you still go on and buy, I think then you have little to no right to complain.
Although Microsoft also earns a lot of my money from Android and Linux purchases, I only focus on quality products. That way, at least, I won't fill my house with overpriced plastic bricks.

Posted:A year ago

#105

Tim Ogul
Illustrator

335 462 1.4
Microsoft logo is a guarantee of low quality, malfunctioning software. The logo carries a lot of meaning, warning buyers about the hard limits on what you'd normally consider your normal, rightful activities, inflated hardware prices and such./quote]

The original model 360 had a lot of quality issues, but I had an original style one for six years now without any maintenance issues, and from what I've heard the "slim" models are quite reliable. I don't see any reason to be overly suspicious about the XBone, beyond those that any first-gen consoles would have.

Posted:A year ago

#107

gi biz
;,pgc.eu

341 51 0.1
Tim, sorry but for me a console that "stops working" after 24 hours if you don't connect to the internet *is* malfunctioning. It might be intended behaviour from MS's point of view, but I never cared much about their point of view. If by reliable you mean it won't give away your personal data or it won't crash, I'm not sure about it either. If you mean it won't burn or explode... well that's the bare minimum isn't it?

Posted:A year ago

#108

Dave Herod
Senior Programmer

527 786 1.5
@Rick Lopez -
In my opinion, game prices have risen, Add the initial disk purchase (which used to be 50$, now its 60$), plus DLC, plus ingame purchases, plus used games license fee's(which seems to be on the way), online passes, season passes and the many ways companies are looking to penny the crap out of the consumer... id say yeah, the price of games has risen. Purchase Borderlands 2 or Mass Effect 3, purchase all of those games DLC, plus add any ingame purchases you may make. Its well over 100$ dollers per game.


Like you said, you have options to wait for a while till prices drop. So overall, it's far easy these days to get more game content cheaper than it used to be, unless you're absolutely insistent on having a game and every last bit of DLC on day one.

Posted:A year ago

#109

Paul Gheran
Scrum Master

123 27 0.2
@Nicholas Pantazis:

Don't worry, Halo is a terrible FPS and one of the most over-hyped products of all time. You won't miss it after you've played some good games.

I think we originally stuck with consoles as a quick alternative to the frustration of managing multiple accounts across a wide number of platforms. Now that this stupidity has come to consoles, and the inferior interface makes it so much more difficult to upkeep, whats the f is the point?

Posted:A year ago

#110

David Serrano
Freelancer

300 272 0.9
@kevin williams

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu.

Microsoft wouldn't have revealed such a controversial product without a clearly defined plan or strategy. I'm sure they retained multiple PR and social marketing firms months ago to prepare for, and to help them deal with the shit storm they surely knew would follow. So Microsoft's official response to every possible issue or concern was probably written and approved before the reveal.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by David Serrano on 10th June 2013 4:47pm

Posted:A year ago

#111

Greg Wilcox
Creator, Destroy All Fanboys!

2,193 1,170 0.5
@David: True... but when your "clearly defined plan" includes a scorched earth policy that kills the villagers in the small towns so they won't resist as you push towards the estates of the favored few who can use that new console, it's a failed plan.

That and hell, their NOT going off script to address REAL issues is what's doing all that quad damage. If they just speak like someone who can see the real issue, not bring up SUBMARINES and cell phones as an excuse, well... things might be better.

Posted:A year ago

#112

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