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Retail

PS4 sells 4.2 million

PS4 sells 4.2 million

Tue 07 Jan 2014 5:53pm GMT / 12:53pm EST / 9:53am PST
RetailHardware

[UPDATE] 9.7 million retail and digital games sold as PlayStation Plus subscriptions jump 90%

Sony Computer Entertainment

Sony Computer Entertainment is a Japanese videogame company specialising in a variety of areas in the...

playstation.com

The first holiday battle in the latest round of console wars goes to Sony. During the company's Consumer Electronics Show keynote address today, Sony Computer Entertainment president and group CEO Andrew House revealed that the company had sold through 4.2 million PlayStation 4s to consumers as of December 28.

Yesterday, Microsoft revealed that it had sold through 3 million Xbox Ones worldwide as of the end of 2013, calling it "a record-setting pace for Xbox." The Xbox One is available in 13 countries worldwide, while the PS4 has launched in 53.

In September, Sony set a goal of selling 5 million PS4s through the end of March, a goal the system is now well positioned to surpass. The PS4 launched November 15 in North America, and sold 1 million units in the US in its first day on sale. By early December, the system had racked up worldwide sales of 2.1 million.

[UPDATE]: After the keynote, Sony released a round-up of updated facts and figures for the PS4. Through the end of the year, Sony said a total of 9.7 million PS4 games were sold, including both physical and digital copies. Among the best-selling titles were Call of Duty: Ghosts, Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, Battlefield 4, FIFA 14, and Sony's own Killzone: Shadow Fall.

Sony also touted the PS4's success in pushing subscriptions to the PlayStation Plus service, which is required for online multiplayer games on the system. PS Plus subscriptions are up 90 percent worldwide since the launch of the system.

Finally, Sony stressed the popularity of the PS4's built-in streaming capabilities, saying gamers have streamed more than 1.7 million gameplay sessions through Twitch and Ustream.

43 Comments

Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.

2,287 2,507 1.1
Popular Comment
Well done, Sony. It's interesting to see just how much a highly anticipated console can sell when there is adequate production there to nearly meet the demand.

Posted:11 months ago

#1

Rick Lopez Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 941 0.7
Popular Comment
Consoles are dead? Smart phones will one day replace consoles, Tablets and touch screen is the future.... really.... REALLY?

However on the other end we have 4 million PS4 consoles sold in a period of 6 weeks...

Boy do I get sick of people claiming console days are over. Seriously.... the only people who wish that are people who have stakes or business in the mobile/tablet industry.

A gamer, any real gamer, loves his game consoles. I really have never seen a person who considers themselves a gamer by playing on mobile devices or tablets. They are usually people who play games casualy and know nothing about gaming.

They happen to play cel phone because its accesible through there phone for free. And they have the phone to talk with people. Not to play games. Games is just a nice bonus that comes along with the smartphone device. Its not the reason people buy them.

So just because there is a gazillion mobile devices out there, doesnt mean a gazllion people are going to play games on them. But when people buy a game console... its to play games on them.

So this fantasy of one device that fits in your pocket that can do everything... is just an utopian fantasy of people with money who like expensive toys. Their mentality is to far up there to realize differant people have differant needs wants and desires. The ir mentality is to strip customers of choice and options and be the ones to tell the consumer what they want and need and sell it to them.

Thinking like this really is stupid. Because part of the success of PS4 was from the fact that it was a device that offered people with differant needs and wants with variouse options that can cater to a wider variety of people. Tablets and mobile devices included.

The key to SONY's success was in actually listening to its customers and being a bit more humble in there way of thinking.

I really hate when companies become arrogant and become def to the customers wants and desires. This does not mean listen to costumers all the time, but Im just saying, leave the door open to the things they want, while at the same time present new ideas and products and let the customer choose. The products will in the end sell themsleves.

Finally, all this talk about mobile becoming the future. Look if you want the console expirience, you neeed the 40" screen and surroundsound system. If you have to connect a mobile device to a TV and to a wall outlet, it essentially becomes a home game console. So unless you want to carry a 40 inch 4k TV or view 4k resolutions on a 3 inch screen, which is stupid because it defeats the purpose of 4K resolutions, I suggest people accept the fact that both console and mobile devices have their place and niether is superior to the other nor one will replace the other.

... unless of course you can plug in a mobile device in your head and expirience your game inside your head like in the matrix.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Rick Lopez on 8th January 2014 2:37am

Posted:11 months ago

#2

Christopher Ingram Editor-at-Large, Digitally Downloaded

52 45 0.9
The idea of the "digital console," which would be possible with future mobile devices and cloud functionalities is indeed just that - something well into the future. Current generation devices, as well as the Internet grid as a whole aren't ready for anything of this magnitude to be put into place at this point in time. In fact, these things, if they do come into fruition, most likely won't even start to be seen in any type of scale for possibly close to another decade.

The only way that the dedicated home console becomes irrelevant is if consumers can get the exact same games on a device that they already own. Until this happens, they will remain a staple in this industry.

Writing off a possible future of the industry a decade from now based on the launch of a new console is a bit premature, in my opinion. These numbers are spectacular and do indeed show that there is still life in the home console, but it doesn't hide the fact that the software has become stagnant - no offence to developers - on these consoles and these numbers don't magically decrease the very high production cost to develop next generation games.

Posted:11 months ago

#3

Bruce Everiss Marketing Consultant

1,692 594 0.4
LOL. Just for context Android activations will reach 3 million every DAY early this year.

Xbox One and PS4 should be manufacturing constrained at about one million units a month each. They stockpiled a few months production for the holiday season launch.
What is a bit surprising is that Microsoft are already trying to increase demand with advertising. You would think that fanboys and early adopters would be enough at this stage.

Posted:11 months ago

#4

Christopher Ingram Editor-at-Large, Digitally Downloaded

52 45 0.9
Popular Comment
@Bruce I actually don't find that too surprising. I truly think it stems from the failed policies that Microsoft tried to force on potential Xbox One owners with its initial reveal. It truly seems that many "Xbox" loyal gamers have went to the PlayStation 4 over these things.

It's is just possible that people are starting to be affected by the continual missteps that this company is making, by trying to tell consumers what it is that they want, instead of letting its products do the talking for them: Windows Vista, Windows 8, Surface, etc.? Not only that, but Windows continually becomes a more demanding and intrusive OS - it's a clear reflection either way you look at it, the company and its products.

If it wasn't for Microsoft's near endless marketing/advertising budget, I think this company would be struggling to find people to buy its products.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Christopher Ingram on 7th January 2014 9:26pm

Posted:11 months ago

#5

Paul Jace Merchandiser

955 1,449 1.5
Just like I said in the Microsoft thread, now Sony has also nearly equaled Wii U's life-to-date sales. I believe they are only off by 1 million or so but considering how many countries the system is sold in they will have caught and probably surpassed them in a mere two months tops. So no, consoles are not dead. Even with the Wii U selling poorly both Sony and Microsoft are carrying the console torch brightly.

Posted:11 months ago

#6

John Kara Consultant

13 7 0.5
@Rick.
Thanks for the awesome post Rick, and agree 100% with your comments and sentiments on the nature of gaming and the appeal of actually owning a physical copy of a game on disc versus streamimg (as you indicated on your previous post).
I am also aiming to buy a PS4 soonish, and these numbers only make me want to head out and buy one today. :-)
Sony have attracted many previous Xbox customers, largely due to their commitment to gamers and allowing the gamers to dictate what they want from a console and how they want a console to function in their homes.
Also, looking forward to some awesome PS4 games arriving this year, including Order 1886 and Uncharted 4.

Best,
JK

Edited 1 times. Last edit by John Kara on 8th January 2014 8:35am

Posted:11 months ago

#7

Jakub Mikyska CEO, Grip Digital

209 1,139 5.4
"Oh, the horror! The horror!"

- Anonymous Microsoft employee after finding about PS4 sales and Sony's upcoming cloud gaming service.

Posted:11 months ago

#8

Lewis Brown Snr Sourcer/Recruiter, Electronic Arts

206 64 0.3
For me its still Software selling games. I would actually prefer to buy a PS4 for the cheaper cost and superior hardware but really want Titanfall and because my gaming buddies are all brand loyal to Xbox will like a sheep follow them onto the Xbone. Still impressive and deserved start from Sony!

Posted:11 months ago

#9

Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd

343 812 2.4
Boy do I get sick of people claiming console days are over. Seriously.... the only people who wish that are people who have stakes or business in the mobile/tablet industry.
Even then it's a backwards attitude to have. If you have a popular game it's usually in your best interest to try to have a presence on every platform that'll support it.

Posted:11 months ago

#10

Peter Dwyer Games Designer/Developer

482 293 0.6
I own both of the new gen consoles but, am surprised at these figures. They are both amazing and unexpected. I don't in all honesty think Sony saw this coming. From speaking to them directly in my role as a developer. It was clear that for a while there they were starting to believe the "console is dead" chant that every idiotic and mis-informed journalist was spouting to them. They felt the need to sell me the smart glass and vita tie in model like it was the second coming. Now they are starting to tout the living room screen as the main focus again and. The sighs of relief are almost audible when I speak to them on the phone.

Well done Sony. Now fix your indie game submission and self publishing and you have the hat trick sorted.

Posted:11 months ago

#11

Nick Parker Consultant

306 186 0.6
Fantastic result but its the 8th of January and the PS4 is sold in 53 countries, some of them with weak EPOS retail systems; I'm not sure how reliable the sell-through to consumer data will be so early on. I think that both Microsoft and Sony have relied on modelling the sell-through based on the assumption that everything they have sold into trade, sold through. There will be pockets of stock somewhere but would SCE territory General Managers admit to having any stock at all? No they wouldn't.

Furthermore, Sony said it had sold through 2.1 million by first week of December; could it really have doubled that when stock was so short in the weeks leading up to Christmas? I think SCE has done a great job but 4.2m seems a little toppy.

On the growth in PS Plus subscriptions; there is a 14 day free trial of PS Plus on purchase of a PS4 which will have helped this and also you now need to subscribe to PS Plus to play any game online. If you've bought COD Ghost or FIFA, you'll want to shell out the 40 for PS Plus to play it with your mates.

Posted:11 months ago

#12

Samuel Verner Game Designer

131 243 1.9
Consoles are dead? Smart phones will one day replace consoles, Tablets and touch screen is the future.... really.... REALLY?
only people without any clue about the reality of the market are saying things like that. they often think onedimentional buzzwords are great to define target groups.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Samuel Verner on 8th January 2014 2:07pm

Posted:11 months ago

#13

Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.

2,287 2,507 1.1
Nick, a combination of expecting stock sell outs plus console or PSN registration data probably gives them a pretty reliable picture of actual sell through. At least within generally accepted margins of error.

Posted:11 months ago

#14

Daniel Hughes Studying PhD Literary Modernism, Bangor University

436 497 1.1
If they were planning to ship 5 million by the end of March, how does this early success (clearly above their 3 million by year's end forecast) affect that? Obviously production is finite, which limits what Sony can actually sell (assuming demand remains high), so have Sony pushed stock onto market to meet earlier initial high demand, therefore reducing available shipments across January to March, or have they been able to greenlight the production of more consoles?

Posted:11 months ago

#15

Rick Lopez Illustrator, Graphic Designer

1,269 941 0.7
@John Kara - My gamer tag on PSN is "Fairbourne". You can add me.... and anyone here who wishes to do the same also add me. Just let me know your from the Game industry. biz forums.
-----------------------

@Bruce - The Android software is set to appear on everything from digital cameras, TV's to automobile dashboards to control most of the car functions like the radio or air conditioning temperature. I truly doubt that 3 million activations a day will make 3 million new gamers a day. And while the sales of both PS4 and XB1 are constrained to how fast they can manufacture them, at least they are selling out and not sitting on store shelves. That along with 9.7 million units of software. I think achieving this in a period of 6 weeks is a remarkable accomplishment for the market its after. This leads me to believe that its clear the market was ready for new consoles. Simply put, Android is a smart interface, used on a wide range of devices, with enough versitality to offer any interface or function for any device, games simply happens to be one of those infinte amounts of features in which Android can be utilized.

And Bruce, the main problem for gaming on mobile devices is not even the hardware. Its that their is Literally millions or billions of applications, most games end up falling into obscurity, simply because they have to compete with so many other games and applications, most of which are cheap clones and really crappy games given away for free. So as a game developer,you have to think twice if releasing a game on a mobile phone is viable, cause you have to figure out 1) How to get noticed, 2) how to get people to play it over other gazillion games out there 3) how much are you going to make money off it since most games are given away for free. And lots a F2P games, most people I know simply play the free portion of the game. Once they have to start paying they let it go. And as with a F2P game, you have to decide how much of the game your going to give away for free. At the end of it all is it really worth it? Does anyone like giving away there games for free? And is it viable?

So maybe SONY right now has provided the ideal game enviroment where both developers and gamers of differant needs can rejoice.

-----------------------

Regarding PS plus. Its really is a great deal, tons of access to free games and lots of discounts and for what you pay on a yearly subscribtion is easily offset by the discounts and free games you get. It only has that many more subscribers because it really is a good and affordable service. The people who tried it out with the free trial included with EVERY PS4 probably had a taste of it and couldnt go back without it. Good marketing on SONY's behalf. Cause honestly I dont play much online, but I have it for other things.

And the newly anounced playstation now, should clear the barrier between console and mobile devices, letting you enjoy your games anywhere on any device and giving gamers CHOICE. Now we will see if tabets and smart phones are the prefered way to play ;)

SONY is listening... however I just hope they also have options for people who actually like owning a copy of the game. Like with movies I will probably watch a TV show on Netflix, and while its i get practicaly free access to a show, if I like it, I like going out and buying the blueRay. Series, like Arrow, Soul Eater and How I met your mother, I have all enjoyed on Netflix, however I liked them so much I went out and bought a physical copy. And with music, i have tons of places I can listen and stream music for free, including youtube, pandora and iTunes podcasts and radio. However I like going to places like beatport to download the digital copy of the song.

SONY would make money from people like me if they allowed me to buy songs in the same way i do on Beatport, if there music unlimited service had the option for me to purchase each individual track or album for me to keep, instead of a streaming service. i see no point in paying to stream music or video when I can watch them in so many other places for free.

Finally, SONY would really make me happy if they provided some sort of backwards compatability emulation for games I already own on phisical disk and digitally downloaded from PS3 store. Im assuming playstation now will provide some cloud based hardware emulation, but Im unclear about this. If anyone knows anything, let me know. However, once they sort all the kinks and it runs properly it would be cool if they created an app that can be installed and will allow you to run your old games without the need to be online. This would make a PS4 the ultimate gaming console for me.

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Rick Lopez on 8th January 2014 6:52pm

Posted:11 months ago

#16

Klaus Preisinger Freelance Writing

1,186 1,273 1.1
If I pay money for a service and then proceed to play a game on that service, then that game is not free.

Posted:11 months ago

#17

Jamie Knight International Editor in Chief, Playnation

65 28 0.4
Dear Rick

Please kindly refrain from using such underhanded tactics as 'facts', 'knowledge', 'intellect' and 'understanding' when dealing with debates on consoles, mobile devices and PC's.

This is highly unsettling and extremely confusing for the usual blend of self-absorbed types who like to promote their own products and titles on GI.Biz as if they are the next genre changing game, ( when what they actually have is an iOS version of Tic Tac Toe. )

This despicable use of 'common sense' and the sheer audacity of you flaunting information that proves that you 'know what you are talking about' is causing upset and indigestion in many of our users.

that will be all, carry on.


( great post, BTW. its nice to actually read a comment on here from someone not blatantly trying to stand in front of their own agenda crying ' nothing to see here' whilst playing the 'neutral card' )

Posted:11 months ago

#18

Bruce Everiss Marketing Consultant

1,692 594 0.4
who like to promote their own products and titles on GI.Biz as if they are the next genre changing game, ( when what they actually have is an iOS version of Tic Tac Toe. )
I currently have no interest whatsoever in any mobile game development or publishing company.

However I can see the writing on the wall.
I said just after launch that the WiiU = Dreamcast. This attracted nothing but derision on here.
I said that tablet graphics power would quickly catch up and overtake that of the PS4. I was told on here that this was beyond the laws of physics and would require a wheelbarrow to transport the battery.
I said that Android would soon be activating 3 million devices a day and was told on here that they are all microwave ovens.

Most of this criticism came in a fairly nasty ad hominem manner.

Every time I get on a bus, or train, or underground or go to the pub I see lots of people playing games. A year ago it was mainly on smartphones. Now it can often be mainly on tablets. This is brilliant for our industry. Games are being played vastly more than ever before, by a far bigger audience. Five million users for a game is now nothing special.

The interesting question is will this audience pay over 500 in order to experience a different form of gaming? And then 40 for each additional game?

The new consoles are being sold in an unprecedented number of launch countries. Their brands have huge fanbases. There are vast numbers of aspirational affluent people in the world. So making and selling a million a month is no big deal at this stage of the lifecycle. The test comes when this audience is exhausted and when broader demographics need to be addressed.

It could be that tablets soften the customer base up. Get them into gaming so that they go on to buy consoles. Or it could be that people get enough out of their tablets and so cannot see the utility in spending another 500+.

Some critics of tablets say that they are useless for gaming because they lack a multi buttoned controller pad. This is silly.

1) 8 bit home computers had keyboards, early consoles had joysticks. The world changes.
2) Good game designers use their creativity to adapt to the hardware,
3) Game controller pads are only good for certain narrow genres.
4) Mobile devices have more potential control inputs than consoles.
5) Nothing is more intuitive than a touch screen for game control.
6) The touch screen can be instantly configured to an infinite range of control layouts. (The big failing is uncreative people who try to implement virtual joysticks).

In the 360/PS3 generation their console industry changed. It became a relatively small number of blockbuster titles. And everything else failed. So far fewer games were published and they were in very narrow genres. Lots of non blockbuster publishers lost hundreds of millions. I have their accounts. The console industry has got a mountain to climb just to normalise themselves to be attractive to a wider demographic. Most people don't want to play GTA or CoD.

The reason that the 360/PS3 became so narrow in their focus and customer base was probably because the Wii was taking the broader demographic away from them. Will the tablet be the Wii of this generation?

Just remember, Wii Sports sold 82 million units. GTA v sold just 16 million and is the highest selling PS3 game.

Posted:11 months ago

#19

Nuttachai Tipprasert Programmer

79 60 0.8
1) 8 bit home computers had keyboards, early consoles had joysticks. The world changes.
2) Good game designers use their creativity to adapt to the hardware,
3) Game controller pads are only good for certain narrow genres.
4) Mobile devices have more potential control inputs than consoles.
5) Nothing is more intuitive than a touch screen for game control.
6) The touch screen can be instantly configured to an infinite range of control layouts. (The big failing is uncreative people who try to implement virtual joysticks).
Fun fact: Touch screen based control is also suitable for certain narrow (if not narrower) genres. Ask FPS, RTS and Fighting games players whether they agreed.

Intuitive is subjective at best. Like I said, there're a lot of game that don't do well with touch screen control. Mobile game developers must keep their games' control mechanism as simple as possible and thus cannot create games that required complex combinations of input. That's why we don't see Devil May Cry or Street Fighter games on phone (I know there really is an SF4 game on iOS but that game is far from enjoyable).

And, no Bruce, Wii didn't take anything from PS3/Xbox360. There's no casual gamers before the DS and Wii, period. It was Nintendo who reached out for those target demographics by itself. In the NES and SNES era, only games enthusiasm play games. That was changed when Nintendo introduced the DS and Nintendogs and Zynga and its Farmville helped expanding the market years later. Yes, Wii Sports sale is far more better than GTA but I don't really remember there's any game that sells more than 20 millions before the Wii (except for the first SMB which was a phenomenon back then). In the early years, 4 millions sales was considered success by most game companies.

I think we are now at the point where we can clearly see the two markets separately branched. Casual gamers play games on phone/tablet and hardcore gamers play more serious games on consoles/PC. No games or platforms need to please everyone. Players can have their own choices. High demands of PS4 and Xbox One proofs that there's still be a space for consoles games in the market. Even in the world where million of people activating their new phones everyday, consoles are still selling better than ever. Isn't this a good news?

Posted:11 months ago

#20

Klaus Preisinger Freelance Writing

1,186 1,273 1.1
Do we have statistics trying to compare the percentage of core gamers among a generation today with the percentage 15 years ago? Followed by some numbers adding up the gross revenue of that market and comparing it with gross production costs of companies creating core games. Then we could make a better guess on how much pressure the core market is under. Same goes for the broader market playing games on non-dedicated devices.

Arguing in circles certainly seems to indicate that we need a new at least some arguments not based on sales extrapolations. All we can say about GTA5 is that 16 million out of 16 million GTA5 customers bought GTA5 because of GTA5. Due to bundling, we cannot say the same about Wii Sports. Who bought the Wii for the Wii and got Wii Sports without caring. Who bought the console only because of Wii Sports? Looking at the sales of Wii Sports 2 might be an indicator, anything else is problematic.

Posted:11 months ago

#21

Samuel Verner Game Designer

131 243 1.9
listening to bruce is a good exercise in understanding of how some of the most terrible decisions in the gamesindustry have started and why nowadays more and more opinion appear where you have to ask "did they ever played a game in their life and how did they end up in this industry?" :-)

Posted:11 months ago

#22

Klaus Preisinger Freelance Writing

1,186 1,273 1.1
That is putting it a bit harsh maybe. If you look at it straight business perspective, then many of his claim have merit. If you are in the industry strictly to go after the right market at the right time with the right games, then a lot of what Bruce Everiss says is quite impossible to argue against.

HOWEVER, if you look at the creative side, then people behave more like Rock Bands. As a Rock Bad, you do not want to hear about shaving one side of your head and releasing a Dubstep album, you want to be reaffirmed that rock still matters, rock is the way to earn money and people will pay for your album and come to your concerts.

Posted:11 months ago

#23

Bruce Everiss Marketing Consultant

1,692 594 0.4
listening to bruce is a good exercise in understanding of how some of the most terrible decisions in the gamesindustry have started and why nowadays more and more opinion appear where you have to ask "did they ever played a game in their life and how did they end up in this industry?" :-)
Ad hominem.
Adds nothing to the debate.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted:11 months ago

#24

Justin Biddle Software Developer

163 493 3.0
Yes Bruce. We get that you found the phrase Ad hominem just before Christmas judging by your sudden and continual use of it at the tail end of last year. Well done. We are all impressed by your mastery of clever phrases.

And he is adding something to the debate. He is saying that your blinkered attitude is dangerous in this industry. Driving people down one road which doesn't fit all refusing to accept that there are different consumers with different needs that all the facts and figures clearly show there is a massive interest in the console market. An entirely blinkered attitude that can't accept that the huge increase in mobile game is in compliment not detriment to console gaming. The twisting and turning followed by weak excuses in the face of next gen console sales, trying to pass off a launch that was equal if not bigger to the last gen as being down solely to loyal idiots is a weak and pathetic argument. This all coming from someone who is a marketing consultant is shocking in the extreme.

And then the final refuge when you face arguments you don't like is to wheel out your buzz phrase of Ad hominem and just brush the comments under the carpet. I fully expect you to do the same to me but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people here are sick to death of your narrow minded comments. And many of those are mobile developers who unlike you can see a world where the writing is not on the wall and co-existence is not only possible but healthy.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Justin Biddle on 10th January 2014 11:27am

Posted:11 months ago

#25

Bruce Everiss Marketing Consultant

1,692 594 0.4
We are all impressed by your mastery of clever phrases.
Shooting the messenger.

Posted:11 months ago

#26

Keldon Alleyne Handheld Developer, Avasopht Ltd

472 480 1.0
Popular Comment
Bruce, if your claim that the tablet is the be all and end all of input, you would most certainly have seen solutions to every genre by now, which you haven't, because it's counter intuitive.

That simple!

Posted:11 months ago

#27

Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.

2,287 2,507 1.1
Coexist. There's a buzz word for you, Bruce. Can you learn that one?

Some people like to hike. Some people like to climb mountains. Deal with it.

Posted:11 months ago

#28

Bruce Everiss Marketing Consultant

1,692 594 0.4
Re Touch Input. The following devices have it.
Nintendo DS
Nintendo 3DS
Steam Box
Playstation Vita
Wii U

Obviously Android sells more than all of them put together.

Posted:11 months ago

#29

Justin Biddle Software Developer

163 493 3.0
Popular Comment
What on earth does this prove?! My car has a cigarette lighter. More matches are sold than all cars put together. I assume this means cars must be dead?!

Posted:11 months ago

#30

Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic

1,630 1,509 0.9
@ Bruce
Re Touch Input. The following devices have it.
Nintendo DS
Nintendo 3DS
Steam Box
Playstation Vita
Wii U
In all these cases, touch can be used as a supplement to DPad/Analogue controls, correct? Touch is not the only manner of control, unlike a tablet, right? And in the case of the DS/3DS, a stylus is used. The great thing about a stylus is that your fingers/hand don't obscure the screen, and you can be more precise. Whilst touch screens are (subjectively) very intuitive, the constant obscuring of the screen is both counter-intuitive and detrimental to gameplay, which is why Steam Controller, Vita and WiiU have secondary touch screens/touch controllers.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Morville O'Driscoll on 10th January 2014 2:42pm

Posted:11 months ago

#31
" the vast majority of people here are sick to death of your narrow minded comments" No offence sir but speak for yourself, some of us like a multitude of opinions to be heard. Its actually quite easy to listen to Bruce and, where you disagree, discount what he says. No need to make it personal.

Posted:11 months ago

#32

Justin Biddle Software Developer

163 493 3.0
Hence I said vast majority not everyone. But being sick of his opinion doesn't mean I'm saying it should be silenced.

On another note, missing from that list of touch interfaces is the PS4

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Justin Biddle on 10th January 2014 2:54pm

Posted:11 months ago

#33

Neil Young Programmer, Rebellion Developments

312 412 1.3
@morville - minor pedant, the wiiu has a stylus same as the DS's (it's a resistive screen again)

Posted:11 months ago

#34

Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic

1,630 1,509 0.9
Does it? Ah, thanks for the info. :)

Posted:11 months ago

#35

Keldon Alleyne Handheld Developer, Avasopht Ltd

472 480 1.0
Re Touch Input. The following devices have it.
Nintendo DS
Nintendo 3DS
Steam Box
Playstation Vita
Wii U

Obviously Android sells more than all of them put together.
Your failure in logic and reasoning astounds me. You deserve a medal... A touch sensitive capacitive medal.

Are you suggesting that the removal of tactile input would have increased sales of those devices?

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 10th January 2014 3:36pm

Posted:11 months ago

#36

Bruce Everiss Marketing Consultant

1,692 594 0.4
you should get a scan to check for a left-brain stroke
Not behaviour becoming of an industry professional on a professional forum.
The management here need to manage.

Posted:11 months ago

#37

Keldon Alleyne Handheld Developer, Avasopht Ltd

472 480 1.0
Not behaviour becoming of an industry professional on a professional forum.
The management here need to manage.
Removed, though it says a lot that you responded only to that.

But let's not be condescending here Bruce. Fess up, your reasoning is terribly flawed. I don't even have a problem with your opinion, we're all entitled to them but if this is a "professional forum" then provide some professional justification. Let's back up our claims, let's show a professional level of thinking and understanding otherwise this is no more professional than a dorm room convo about the games industry.

Bearing in mind you're a marketing consultant, and I've worked with some great marketing consultants, so I greatly respect what you guys do. And I do learn a lot from some of your comments and perspectives. But then you come out with the wildest relationships between products and ignore context.

And I'm not even saying that in the next 50 years that the console model will be as strong. For all we know the next generation of gamers could grow up only interested in tablets, f2p and iap. That I'm not even debating against, and it's a topic that nobody really knows the answer to as it can go either way.

But let's not just spew out nonsensical analogies and comparisons between different markets, ignoring the context of the individual markets in question. Respect the concept of scope, or at least acknowledge it and demonstrate an awareness for it.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 10th January 2014 3:47pm

Posted:11 months ago

#38

James Brightman Editor in Chief, GamesIndustry.biz

263 466 1.8
Reminder To All: I know you like having your fun with Bruce, but please keep discussions civil. Everyone's entitled to his/her own opinion. Personal attacks on another commenter may lead to account suspensions.

Posted:11 months ago

#39

Klaus Preisinger Freelance Writing

1,186 1,273 1.1
Most of this historical grown fight seems so weird and entrenched.

Yes mobile is closing the gap in terms of performance, mainly because mobile iterates fast while consoles remain at the same hardware prowess for almost a decade.

But if we compared mobile, as a fast iterating hardware platform, to other fast iterating hardware platforms, we would notice that there is no gap closing. For example, both graphics cards and ARM chips evolve very fast. Sometimes based on the same core technologies, e.g. nVidia.

There is also the case of Intel CPUs somewhat "slacking off". While ARM does bad compared to nVidia desktop chips, it does rather well compared to Intel. Mainly because Intel is heavily involved into developing its chip towards mobile use and low power consumption. Also known as low TDP profile. If they were cranking out high TDP chips the way nVidia does, we would have a more obvious perspective on the current state. Intel is also at the forefront of chip miniaturization. ARM design profited from that fact and was able to catch up faster than Intel could pull ahead. Which is exactly what you would expect.

Yes mobile is selling a lot of units. But that is not saying it sells a lot of state-of-the-art hardware. Not every PC sold is an i7, not every ARM chip sold is the hottest thing ever to outpace Moore's law.

Which brings us to the f2p developer paradigm of targeting the largest market possible to make back money. On mobile this makes up for many games with lowest common denominator graphics and very few games showing off near Xbox 360 prowess. It is a similar situation the PC is in when it comes to games which had consoles as a lead platform. The excess power does not go into enhanced features or better graphics, it often is reduced to better framerate and anti-aliasing, because you can slap that on almost everything. Mobile games have to work with limitations. Limitations of audience, limitations of price they can charge upfront, limitation everywhere. Even if the graphics were not limited, the other limitation would soon bring mobile developers back to the floor. If your game drains batteries in 15 minutes, you won't sell as many cash shop items. Even with a miracle battery, you are going for mileage, not 100% chip power the way consoles do.

Which brings us to touchscreens. Sure, it is better than what we used to have on these devices, because we used to complain about Japanese button sizes (aah, the 90ies) and microscopic displays. But did you ever once think about replacing your desktop keyboard with a sleek touchscreen plate? Did Apple replace the keyboard of a Macbook with another touchscreen? Touchscreens are accepted on the devices which they improved, but there are still areas in which people rather not have them at all.

The final conflict being that of wanting to chase what seems to be the type of game and the market of the moment, as opposed to having grown up accustomed to a certain type of game experience and aspiring to be involved in their creation until death or singularity. Games can be a dirty business, with devious psychological hooks and people being called whales and relentlessly exploited. How many years can you do that? How many years until even the most cynical cold blooded mathematician can no longer look himself in the mirror? This can be a source for conflict too and this is why Nintendo is often admired. Even when they are called out for having produced a so called flop, their business sticks around and the people working there will do so in good conscience. That is company value often overlooked, when we observe some f2p company overtaking them in terms of quarterly earnings.

Conflict seems to be born out of the desire to defend a simple personal truth in favor of not going for the whole complicated picture. With the size of the gaming industry, there is no such thing as having enough information to be right all the time.

Posted:11 months ago

#40

Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd

26 50 1.9
Personal attacks on another commenter may lead to account suspensions.
Or, you know, you could deal with commenters who spam the site over and over again, derailing conversations purely to try to get a rise out of people. The contrast in the quality of discussion of sites with active community moderation is dramatic.

Posted:11 months ago

#41

Alfonso Sexto Lead Tester, Ubisoft Germany

846 732 0.9
@Barry Meade
Not as much at his "narrow minded" ideas as at his continuous disrespect for everything related to consoles. Developers, first parties and costumers alike.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Alfonso Sexto on 13th January 2014 8:54am

Posted:11 months ago

#42

Justin Biddle Software Developer

163 493 3.0
@Alfonso. Which is pretty much what I meant. I apologise for not making it clear at the time. It is the treatment of others, for example calling them luddites for still seeing a future in consoles. I genuinely don't mind him having a view contrary to my own. It's the attitude that rankles

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Justin Biddle on 13th January 2014 12:38pm

Posted:11 months ago

#43

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