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Evolved games market has stumped next-gen console plans

The "cheap-assed" Wii and online games have left Sony and Microsoft without direction, says Alex St John

Alex St John has told GamesIndustry.biz that he believes the reason Microsoft and Sony haven't announced a new generation of consoles is because it's no longer clear what they can do to improve on the systems they are already offering.

The former executive at Microsoft and WildTanget, and now president of social games business hi5, said that the Wii proves that high-tech consoles aren't the next step in home entertainment, and cheaper social gaming via the web has left manufacturers in a niche market.

"This is usually when you announce [consoles]. It's 2010. No rumours either. There's two reasons for delaying. The reason for the delay is the reason I'm right," said the out-spoken executive.

"I love 3D, but that revolution is over. People academically say there's always room for more realism. But actually there isn't. There's diminishing returning for better graphics. People don't see more realism even if you give it to them. Once that's happened, games have to be differentiated for a different reason. You can't do more 3D than you've got. So what's happened is that differentiation is happening by community, multiplayer, social dynamics.

"When they rationalise making a new console, they're thinking the most successful console was the one with the crappiest 3D the Wii. The cheap-assed 3D console, that's the one that beat everybody. The 3D didn't matter it was a new input device, and Xbox Live." He added: "Coming third is Sony with the best 3D oops."

"So they're sitting over there at Sony and Microsoft right now I don't know that but I can hear them thinking, 'what the hell do we do? The ones we're shipping are finally profitable we'll never recoup the losses for the 3D we invested in these consoles, we don't want to do that again. This online world is changing so fast we have no idea how to control it or how to participate in it. You know that Wii thing is neat, let's try some of that'.

"You can't spent $2 billion inventing a new console when you don't know what it's going to do," he added. "The only thing you know is the thing that you used to do is wrong. There was a time when the future wasn't blurry it was clear what you had to do it's not that way any more."

St John said that Microsoft had made a mistake in continuing to chase the dream of its technology being the centre piece of the living room a goal he points out the company has had since the 1990s.

"When I was at Microsoft, Bill Gates wanted to get into the living room. I was in meetings with Gates and I'd go, 'I don't want to piss you off, because I know you've already lost a billion dollars on stupid web TV ideas no offence, I know you can fire me but the Japanese walked into your living rooms the entire time you were sat here scratching your heads, with games.

"Now what are they doing now they are in the living room? It wasn't easy but they got there. And what are they saying now they're in the living room? 'We're going to stream music and video'. You idiots! Do you ever learn? You morons - don't touch video with a stick, be focused that's why you finally got to the living room, with games." In the time it takes for the future to become clearer, which he predicts will be in around five years, St John said one thing is certain: "Games are just made out of electrons and people have very powerful personal computers and growing internet connections. This idea of a living room is dying. Everyone is carrying a screen around with them constantly, they've got them everywhere, 3D chips are a commodity once you have that, I think that maybe the living room just dissipated," he said.

More insight from the Game Developers Conference can be read in our updated feature here. St John is set to host a session on Hi5 at GDC today (Wednesday), at which he'll announce new plans for the company.

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Latest comments (29)

I hardly agree with this.

Altho Nintendo is making a nice profit of all the console's they've sold, how are the software sales in comparison?
Sony and Microsoft might be tagging behind on console sales but they are lightyears ahead of Nintendo's software sales and I think for these 2 companies this is where its at for the moment. (not counting handheld devices sales)

Agreed that Nintendo had their big hits aswell with New Super Mario Bros. to name an example, but Sony has been stamping out one exclusive after another with Microsoft not too far behind (altho not 1st party).
Personally I agree that maybe 3D is not needed but would be a nice addition, but more realism to games is always welcome...who wouldn't wanna play Gran Turismo 5/Final Fantasy XIII for example, the graphics are gorgeous, how can you put that against a Wii graphics game, true graphics arent everything, but it's something surely.

I doubt the people at MS/Sony are scratching their heads for the next-gen console, rather I think the people at Nintendo are doing so.

Anyway just wanted to state my opinion

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Joffrie Diependaele on 10th March 2010 11:09am

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Chris Hunter-Brown IT / Games specialist, BBFC9 years ago
Given that the Top 10 sales charts are dominated by Nintendo games in the majority of territories, I would say Nintendo are far from scratching their heads Joffrie.

Bottom line is Nintendo's disruption has had a massive impact on the console business which is why it's baffling that so few people understand it (Rob Fahey on this site being a notable exception).

Commentators like St John and perhaps to a greater extent Sean Malstrom tend to have a somewhat bombastic style which doesn't always help when they are loudly railing against perceived "industry" wisdom. This doesn't mean they're wrong though.

I think he's bang on though he's changed his reasons why from previous interviews.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Chris Hunter-Brown on 10th March 2010 11:55am

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Michael Abraham game designer 9 years ago
i have to lean towards what he's said myself. unless something dramatic happens in the digital technology sector, we're basically at the point where the next consoles won't boast an amazing new feature/transition, but rather just upgrades on what is already there. - i'm not saying that that's bad, more powerful systems means more flexibility afterall, but it's hardly the same as the wii's release with it's motion controller, or PS3's cell, or the online connectivity that consoles now sport.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Michael Abraham on 10th March 2010 12:08pm

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Show all comments (29)
Jeff Wayne Technical Architect 9 years ago
I think it's a pretty sound view of things also.

If I take a personal example, I do enjoy playing Gran Turismo on the PS and Halo on the XBox but nothing beats the fun of playing on the Wii versus a few friends in your living room. The graphics are crude by comparison indeed but the fun and enjoyment factor from the novel forms of input and decent multiplayer games is of much greater value to me at least.

Is there really a need for a new console anyway? When Microsofts Natal and Sonys offering get out into the wild, all three current popular offerings will be covering most (maybe all?) bases. Xbox and PS for the more 'serious' gaming and the Wii for the 'family-fun' gaming.

I can't think of anything else that would interest me personally. One would imagine that all three companies might be happy to kick back and let the money keep coming in rather than stress about artificial expectations that they need to announce a new console for the sake of it.
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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.9 years ago
Joffrie, to add what Chris already noted, the Wii actually sells more 3rd party software than the PS3 and nearly as much as the X360. But it's across a far larger range of product. The following is for demonstration only and is not reflective of the actual sales figures: say PS3 has 10 3rd party games and sales of 5 million. That's an average of 500k per game. The Wii would then have 30 3rd party games and sales of 10 million. That's an average of 300k per game.

So when you look at the top 10 sales charts, you don't often see a 3rd party Wii title there because on average they do not sell as high individually but as a whole group, they easily outsell the who group of 3rd party efforts on PS3. This is why 3rd party's have been announcing they will cut back on the number of Wii titles they ship. Because they've over saturated the market with too many games and the average sales per title has become unsustainable. With fewer product on the shelf, the average per title will go up.

In this instance, Alex St John is quite correct. Nintendo has done very little to emulate the HD offerings yet Sony and MS have both been scrambling all generation to replicate the Wii. Now if that doesn't explain which console makers are doing the most head scratching this gen, I don't know what will.
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Thank you for correcting my false statement and adding some insight to it, will be interesting to see what they come up with next.

I enjoy Nintendo products myself from time to time, but the majority of my gaming time is spend on the other 2 console's.
But in all honesty and as said above, there really is no need currently for any next-gen console anyway.

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Joffrie Diependaele on 10th March 2010 12:44pm

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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.9 years ago
If only more people in the industry took your humble approach. Sadly, too many in our industry, even at high levels, just accept the false data and leave it at that despite facts on the contrary. I believe we'd have a less hostile industry (ironic given the propensity for our games to contain insane amounts of violence) if we scrutinized the facts a little better and not fanboy mantras.

This generation is indeed a unique one. It's one of the few that has allowed all 3 consoles to attain good sales and strong support from consumers, retailers and publishers. And given the high cost of development, it will be necessary to extend the life cycle to amortize those high costs.

It does seem odd that at this point in a generation is typically when new consoles are being hyped by their makers yet we all feel like we are not even close to that point yet.

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Jack Loftus Contributing Editor, Gizmodo9 years ago
The trouble for MS and Sony is that their "next step," the motion controls, were not built into the console or the strategy from day one. Natal and Arc (or whatever Sony calls it) are accessories, and seemingly expensive ones at that. Accessories simply don't sell as many units as the consoles they support. That's fact, and it's a fact that makes it hard for a developer to allocate resources because it involves substantial risk. Add on top of that the fact that this is largely an unproven technology and the risk goes up again.

On top of that, as we've seen from MS in the past few months, the backpedaling on the type of games that will be sold for this accessory do not gel very well with the audience that currently dominates the console's install base. How many stories have we seen where MS execs openly admit that "hardcore" games aren't really this device's main focus?

What's baffling are all the analysts and enthusiast press enablers who keep saying that Arc and Natal are going to magically produce "new gamers" and catapult either the Xbox or PS3, or both, past the Wii in 2010 and 2011. Really? With the family-friendly and (dare I say it) "casual" Natal games that MS is going to announce at E3 in a few months? Tell me, how many "family friendly" Xbox 360 games crack the top 20 each month? What's that? None? So, where's this killer growth going to come from?

Sorry, cal me a pessimist or some kind of Nintendo fanboy all you want, but the public perception of the PS3 and Xbox 360 are such that a casual game-friendly motion controller like Natal or Arc are doomed to mediocre sales and a Sega 32X-type response from the development community. And yes, I say that knowing full well that MS is crowing about 80% of all developers are on board with Natal. There's also this bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to show you if you believe that statement is completely honest.
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Chris Hunter-Brown IT / Games specialist, BBFC9 years ago
Effectively, Natal & Arc represent a "quasi-generation". This is a good thing because as far as the platform holders and most of the third party publishers are concerned, the traditional generation reset is necessary but the market has evolved and been disrupted to the point where it is no longer feasible.

As St John points out, it's both hideously expensive and it's not immediately clear what the defining features of a next gen console would be. Yet, the PS3 and Xbox 360 *as is* have no chance of getting the kind of install numbers the PS2 got by which economies of scale kick in and platform holders / publishers can recoup costs. Witness the number of sequels to established IP coming out this year. Left alone, growth would be no better than the last couple of years and likely tail off gracefully.

Arc / Natal are essentially the proverbial get out of jail free card. Both HD consoles can be relaunched at more accessible price points and publishers can release new IP and new games (in line with their AAA bankers) to take advantage thus injecting fresh impetus into the market. A new generation at a fraction of the cost.

The challenge for them is that they aren't Nintendo and it's not clear whether they can make the 'Wii Sports' killer app and whether they'll be able to differentiate themselves enough as the expanded market becomes more crowded. Natal is amazingly high risk and potentially a game changer but Microsoft do not have the track record in software beyond their traditional audience. Sony on the other hand do, but Arc for me is basically Wii Motion Plus Plus. All this talk about a supposed Wii HD, the PS3 is effectively it. Will Sony be able to convince consumers that they want a Wii which is more precise, has prettier graphics and can be the centre piece of their living room?

I'll contend that consumers bought a Wii because they saw the potential of Wii Sports and playing games with their families, not motion control per se. It's these experiences which need to be built on, not merely made prettier and bundled with a home entertainment platform.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Chris Hunter-Brown on 10th March 2010 1:24pm

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Tim Ryan Producer, Fire Muse Consulting9 years ago
There are clearly two trends in UI that will have an impact on the next console: motion control (which will continue to improve beyond Motion Plus and Natal) and touch screen, which will have a greater and greater install as the technology is getting cheaper. Neither of these necessitate better graphics.

The trend for game mechanics, which stalled out in the mid-90's on the PC with the advent of the 3D revolution on the console, is user-generated content. Once upon a time most PC games were shipped with an editor. Now with the upsurge in social-gaming, the drive to interact with other players in more meaningful ways than shooting is growing again. The next-generation of consoles will be focused on sharing which means greater throughput, faster downloads, much larger and probably expandable drive space and greater Internet presence of your game personae and personal contributions to game content.

The other big impact is the media type. Sony's PS2 was a logical choice for a first DVD player, and now that the HD format wars are decided, the PS3 is the logical choice for BlueRay player. Despite St. John's prediction, Sony's PS3 sales are climbing and I would largely attribute that to Blue Ray. So what is the next big media type? All signs indicate this will be digital distribution. Are the big players already working on this? Of course. Every publisher and manufacturer are looking at that.
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Read up on the next media type and I think it will stay at Bluray for now, Digital Distribution will surely grow but I doubt they'll focus a whole console on that, just look at the PSPGo, a bold step but too soon, also not everyone has connection to the internet or a fast connection line.

This is still a bit away but I read they're working on: "Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD). These discs have the capacity to hold up to 6 terabytes (TB) of information. The HVD also has a transfer rate of 1 Gbit/s (125 MB/s). Sony, Philips, TDK, Panasonic and Optware all plan to release 1 TB capacity discs in 2019 while Maxell plans one for early 2020 with a capacity of 500 GB and transfer rate of 20 MB/s - although HVD standards were approved and published on June 28, 2007, no company has released an HVD as of March of 2010." -from Wikipedia

Since Sony is working on it aswell we might see it in a future console as the next media type input.
Bluray hasnt reached it's full capacity yet so I assume it will keep growing for now.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Joffrie Diependaele on 10th March 2010 2:55pm

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Funnily enough, while the game industry ponders if technology and looks are important, the movie industry had its most successful movie ever, almost solely based on new ways of shooting 3D.

Ultimately what defined the success of 3D then and the success of casual controllers (and touch) now was that people are first looking for an experience they never had access to before. Now that it's done, no one can simply rest on their laurels and think they're done and don't need to push the envelope further.
Let's not throw the baby with the bath water.

I think of all 3 Natal has the most chances to succeed over the coming 2 years, simply because it is the only true new experience consumers will have access to (Natal feels very differently to motion controllers), but also because it has technological requirements that will not be easily adapted on other cheap mobile platforms (yet).

And let's see how 3D TV impacts the market, it's an easy one to dismiss because of the glasses, but looking at the movie industry one shouldn't underestimate the interest in the 3D experience.
Personally I'd dig a Natal / 3D combination. :-)
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Tim Ryan Producer, Fire Muse Consulting9 years ago
3D is a big if. It seems every few years 3D makes an upsurge, and just because Avatar and Disney are advocating it now, doesn't mean all video games will be 3D.

I loved Avatar when I saw it the first time in standard view. It was worthy of nomination and the awards it received for more than just the 3D aspect. The second time I saw it in 3d. The 3D was exciting, but I could tell they struggled with where to put the focal point for each scene. It's clearly not perfected technology yet. Avatar was an A-list movie. Now, put 3D on a B movie (like most 3D movies to date) and you'll see that 3D doesn't make them successful. I don't see 3D making B games successful either. It's a gimmick.
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Simon Peter9 years ago
The main problem is, that "the industry", or at least too many members of it, delusionally believe that since the graphics reached this stable state, they don't have to upgrade AT ALL. The PS3 and the 360 will magically sell for 10 years and beyond, no one will ever want to spend money on hardware, and people will be content with the current quality.

It doesn't work like this. In the past, old generation hardware and software sales didn't decrease because the graphics got old, it was the opposite: graphics needed to be upgraded BECAUSE sales went down anyways. Peoplle always want innovation, and new gameplay experiences, and graphical upgrads were the easiest way to gie them.
Now, sales WILL slow down in the 4th and 5th years, again, people will lose interest, and there won't be a simple upgrade to get them back.
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Anuj Malhotra Studying Business Management, Imperial College London9 years ago
I think there's an oversight in assuming that all current gen consumers want, or even know how to stream HD from their HD consoles, I refer of course to this editorial by Rob Fahey last year.
[link url=http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/definition-transition-editorial
]http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/de...[/link]

If the majority of people were getting the best out of their consoles already and there was room for a definitive upgrade in the visual experience I'm sure the console manufacturers would be thinking harder about the next gen already, whereas for now cosmetic changes 3D firmware/motion controls are capable of generating the mass market appeal a new generation of hardware would have been required for in the past.

As it stands this generation has persisted through a difficult economic climate and has potential for further absorption into the market as disposable incomes rise again, and I think that definitely makes more sense from the standpoint of the format holders who need to keep pace with their third party publishers who are reeling at the moment from soaring development costs and slowing year on year software sales, lest they run themselves and developers out of business too.
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Kevin J Baird CEO, VGN Inc9 years ago
The reason they haven't announced a new console is because the consumer hasn't lost its appetite for what is currently out there. When game sales decline and consumer interest wanes, we'll see new systems.

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Russell Watson Senior Designer, Born Ready Games9 years ago

The only reason people are talking about the next generation of consoles is because of the precedent set by the 4 year cycle. The market has proven this generation and last that its no longer applicable.
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Anuj Malhotra Studying Business Management, Imperial College London9 years ago
@ John - Indeed, he seemed to be using 3D as the catch all term for graphical performance. Hence I referred to HD and the 3D tech of the promised ps3 firmware update separately in my reply.
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Kenneth Seward Game Designer 9 years ago
There is a point to be made about this article, and that's that consoles at this point should really be looking to appeal to studios more than ever. People are going to buy the latest console because that is the nature of society and people want to have the latest thing. But improving processing power, ram and storage space should also be a selling point since software makes the hardware. So if they are having problems creating the next console, look under the hood first, bitches!
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James Bulman Senior Animation Programmer, Rockstar North9 years ago
John,

I think Alex St John was using "crappiest 3D" to refer to it's underpowered GPU, not it's lack of HD.

The confusion surrounding the term 3D is probably due to the different histories of its usage in games and film.

In games we started out with 2D (Super Mario etc.), then came 2.5D (Wolfenstein, Doom etc.), then came 3D (Quake and everything it spawned), which brings us into the current generation of HD (weirdly doesn't imply 3D, just something running at 720 / 1080) and finally Stereo (Avatar The Game, not much else).

The film industry have annoyingly and inaccurately used the term 3D to refer to stereoscopic films (two images projected to form the illusion of depth), if they were really 3D you could get up and walk around Sigourney Weaver.

Hope this clears things up.
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Sean Currie Dev Support, Microsoft Studios9 years ago
@ Jimmy

Would you be able to clarify your statements a little more? I'm having trouble understanding your argument.

If those successful Wii games sell 300k units and PS3 per title sales amount to 500k then it's more lucrative to release on the PS3. At least from the perspective of an individual developer. There might be 10 million total sales combined, but its not like that revenue goes into a pot that everyone shares - developers are selling 40% fewer copies on Wii. If your a large publisher with a diverse portfolio then perhaps the total Wii sales would be better for you (assuming you keep development costs down.) But I don't see how those numbers are beneficial to developers working on the Wii. If anything it suggests a lower attach rate given the install base of the console and that's a pretty rough sea to sale.

Anecdotal evidence has always suggested that the only one doing particularly well on the Wii is Nintendo - with third party support rarely breaking into the top 20 game sales. Checking out this weeks numbers seems to confirm that. Nintendo's titles do well, but other third party releases are waaaaaaaay down the list. That's fine if your budget is small and you're very casually focused but I imagine that's not an exciting prospect for most designers.

* Just to clarify - the 40% fewer copies statement was only in reference to Jimmy's scenario, not actual data.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Sean Currie on 10th March 2010 11:50pm

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Tim, sorry to disagree, but every movie has an uplift in its box office the minute it has a 3D version at the moment (hence why all studios are upgrading their key movies to 3D, and by 2011 there will hardly be any blockbuster not available in 3D). The admission/print are even much higher in 3D screens than it is in 2D, and it's becoming common to see 3D screens account for more than 40% of the box office even if they only represent less than 15% of screens.
The fact you don't personally find it impressive doesn't mean consumers don't crave the experience. Right now movie industry wise every metric says they do.
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Chris Hunter-Brown IT / Games specialist, BBFC9 years ago
@Sean - I think Jimmy's point was that a third party's sales on the Wii (or lack thereof) is largely the publisher's own making as they have flooded the market with shovelware & cheap ports rather than focus on creating quality experiences. In this environment, it's hard for the better quality efforts to accrue enough sales to chart because in part, they are being cannibalised by the sheer amount of "stuff" around it. Not to mention, the effect that a lot of poor software has on the consumer's mindset as a whole. Is it any wonder consumers who only infrequently buy software for their Wii opt for Nintendo when they are guarenteed a set level of quality?

Releasing less software on the platform could help to break this cycle but it won't be easy. I think some publishers have realised this and find it easier to point at Nintendo, moan how unfair it is and retreat ungracefully.

The notion that third party software can't succeed on the Wii feels to me like a bit of an old wives tale. There was a great interview with someone from Capcom on GamaS the other week where they mentioned they were very happy with how Tatsunoko vs Capcom and it'll be interesting to watch Monster Hunter Tri. That's to go along with things like EA Sports Active, Just Dance etc.
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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.9 years ago
Thanks, Chris. That summed it up pretty well.

While the average Wii 3rd party title accrues less sales than the average 3rd party PS3 title, the irony is that the Wii has more million selling 3rd party titles than the PS3 does. And we already know the total volume of 3rd party software is higher. So the capability for great 3rd party sales on Wii definitely exists but there are many factors involved that have hampered it and the top 10 sales data paints an invalid picture.

As Chris noted, product over saturation has diluted the sales average because there is more product being produced than the market can consume. The Wii and PS3 have approximately the same software attach rate but because the Wii has more than twice as many titles being published, it's impossible to have the same per title sales average.

There is also the GameStop factor. GameStops utilize very small store footprints which reduce the available shelf space per console (and we have more out now than ever before) so product rotation happens very quickly. If 10 new games are released on Wii in one week and just 4 for the PS3, that's more product for Wii that must be removed from the shelves to make room for the new stuff. And certainly 1st party software enjoys a long shelf life so that further reduces the space for software. And given the nature of Wii buyers, they don't buy 60% of the entirety of a game's sales in the first week as happens on the other consoles. And because of that a publishers titles will suffer because they are already shoving a new product on the shelf to replace it. They cannibalize their own sales this way.

Publishers have finally started to wise up and have announced they plan to reduce the volume and increase quality. Which should put Wii 3rd party sales per title average much more in line with PS3 and X360.

Another factor is advertising. Outside of Nintendo, what publisher on Wii advertises their Wii titles to the same degree they do their HD consoles titles? None of them.

I'll add more to this later but I've got to run.
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Michael Abraham game designer 9 years ago
a lil off to the side here, but seeing Joffrie Diependaele's post regarding HVD holding up to 6 TB makes me shudder thinking about how AAA game development budgets will skyrocket to take advantage of that amount of storage space. i'm also reminded of the old phrase that greater quantity doesn't necessarily mean greater quality.
- it sort of strengthens the arguement to NOT upgrade as getting people to develop on a system like that just won't seem appealing over developing for existing systems. not to mention the fact that the hardware requirements (CPU, RAM and GPU) will be quite high to support the additional data, this means an expensive piece of hardware - it's still to soon after the recession to have a mass surge in people shelling out for such a thing.
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Blaise Guy Studying Bachelor of Games and Interactive Entertainment, Queensland University of Technology9 years ago
I'm just waiting for a Wii HD console to finally come out on the shelves - much the same way I am awaiting the giant, optional World of Warcraft Graphics update.

They (Nintendo and, sigh, Blizzard) have done a fantastic job with their products, but years have passed and they should just bite the bullet and advance their graphical quality to today's standards.

If Wii weren't so pixellated, I know that I'd have twice the amount of friends with Wii consoles than I have right now - and if the graphics of WoW weren't so dated (the animation quality is fantastic, but polygon counts are still fairly low, along with texture sizes) then Aion wouldn't have half the subscribers it has now.

While I'm pretty sure the WoW graphical update is a figment of my imagination, I do believe the Wii HD to be something to look out for signs of in the not-too-distant future.

If it could draw more pixels, at least, then I think a lot of people would be happy.
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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.9 years ago
Blaise, a Wii HD makes very little financial or market sense.

1. It would rip into their current profit margins. That's a good way to run off investors.

2. The current iteration of the Wii is still the best selling video game console of all time at its current sales pace. It just had the best selling December in NPD history by more than 1 million units.

3. Why segment your market? That's partly what helped ruin Sega was the multitude of market segmentation.

4. A new home console for a single feature that causes all the above isn't warranted. It's also not their philosophy on hardware. It would need to be much more than just an HD Wii for hem to release a new home console and with that regard they may as well wait until the next full generational cycle.
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Devin Aylor Studying MDD, DeVry University9 years ago
Sony has more devices on the sales floor than just the PS3 model, you all know that right? I dont think sony is haveing much of an impact considering most of the best games come out on the PS3, many hot hot games just came out. Microsoft is haveing the trouble here, their consoles prety much suck. Lets face it, the XBOX360 was created with a ring of death! Why would they do that? They're the newst manufacturer, they're the newst at the game industry. So we got Nintendo WII vs. Sony PS3 and the Sony PSP vs. The NIntendo GameBoy gerations.
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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.9 years ago
Devin, do you not recall the Disc Read Errors of the PS2? What excuse do they get given they weren't new to hardware? It was console number 2 just like the X360. You also have to understand that the consoles are not even manufactured by the console companies themselves. Foxconn has handled manufacturing of all 3 current consoles almost exclusively. Individual components come from hundreds and even thousands of different companies.

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