Sections

Celebrating employer excellence in the video games industry

8th July 2021

Submit your company

Brianna Wu: "I see a generation with almost no innovation"

Head of development at Giant Spacekat explains why women in tech is about making better games

Brianna Wu, activist and the head of development at Giant Spacekat, told GamesBeat 2015 attendees that making tech more inclusive for women could help to breed the innovation that she feels is lacking from this generation of games.

"When I look at the PS4 and I look at the Xbox One I don't know what you see, I see a generation with almost no innovation," she said.

"With respect to all my friends out there shipping games on it, when I look at Forza I see the same game from Xbox 360 with slightly prettier textures and particle effects. Like there's nothing I've seen so far that couldn't have been done last generation. Same story with first person shooters. To me when we're talking about women in tech at its core this is about making better games. Aren't you all so frustrated playing the same stupid game?"

Wu also spoke about her recent visit to Oculus Connect 2 and the potential she sees in the medium for emotional storytelling.

"I left Oculus Connect a few weeks ago and I left Oculus Connect more psyched that I've ever felt in my life about the longevity and the sustainability about VR. That said I can't help but look at some of my friends that are working in this field... look for instance at Epic's tech demo, they came out with a tech demo that got rave reviews," she said.

"But what is it? it's a tech demo where you are on a train and you're killing more robots in a first person shooter. Let's trot out the same playbook yet again!"

She explained that Giant Spacekat was more interested in what VR could do better than any other technology, and it believed the answer was story. She suggested empathy was the building block currently missing from game development, and VR could offer a way to incorporate that with your motion, your eyes and the tone of your voice.

"That's really the direction that we're going."

Celebrating employer excellence in the video games industry

8th July 2021

Submit your company

More stories

The cannibalization takeaway | This Week in Business

Ubisoft's free-to-play faux pas simply reflective of the industry's increasing hunger for lucrative brand extensions

By Brendan Sinclair

Xbox Series X|S set to launch in China in June

Pre-orders for the consoles will open on May 19

By Danielle Partis

Latest comments (95)

Tobias Burandt5 years ago
While there is indeed a certain lack of innovation and those 'next-gen' consoles aren't used to their full potential, the much bigger issue is the customer. I don't think any game studio runs short on ideas. The real problem is selling these ideas to the customer. Think Tribes. Some people saw the revolution of the team shooter genre by adding vertical movement. Some people loved it, others didn't. I rarely see any action games with vertical movement nowadays. Variations of that sort of movement as we see them in Assassin's Creed, Dying Light or even Just Cause (a more limited form of freedom) seem to attract a bigger audience.
In my opinion, innovation isn't a question of gender. It's a question of marketing with the last instance still being the customer. You can't sell what the customer doesn't want.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
What the bloody hell does any of this have to do with gender? I actually find this insulting.

Just because you have an agenda, it doesn't mean you have to weakly attach it to absolutely everything.
34Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
Agreed. Personally, when I go to work, I'm going to work with coders, artists, designers, producers and musicians. Notice those terms have no gender. I couldn't care less what gender they are. This type of narrative is actually promoting sexism.
20Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Show all comments (95)
Alfonso Sexto Lead Tester, Ubisoft Germany5 years ago
Right now we are in a point in which production costs (for AAA at least) are too high to take risks. That's why you see so many shooters, so many sequels, so many zombie games... You still see creativity in small studios like her's who are doing those indie games that are also present on PS4 and Xone. So I'm guessing she points the lack of creativity in big companies and big budget project.

And about improving creativity by being more inclusive to women; the more people we have on board the more points of view that we can have. And that is never a bad thing.

@Col: That may be your case, but it's not the general case. Yesterday in this very website we had news of a great female talent leaving the games industry because of how her work was not recognized just for being a woman. Saying that making activism to fight back against those prejudices is promoting sexism is like saying that making activism for the integration of immigrants promotes Xenophobia.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Alfonso Sexto on 13th October 2015 9:03am

13Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Darren Adams Managing Director, ChaosTrend5 years ago
I have to also agree on this one, it is bugger all to do with a gender balance. If she sees no innovation in the industry then stop trying to make it about something it isn't and make innovative games. So far I am not that impressed with her work; revolution 60 is innovative??

Of course having a nice balance of gender in the workplace is a good thing, but neither side is better or worse for the industry.

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Darren Adams on 13th October 2015 9:35am

7Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
Actualy Alfonso, it is.
Yesterday in this very website we had news of a great female talent leaving the games industry because of how her work was not recognized just for being a woman
I've considered leaving the industry as I can't get any of my recent work recognised by anybody. If I'm male and we accept her argument that males get more attention, isn't that more insulting to me?

I could put that lack of success down to lack of marketing skills, lac of good luck, maybe the games are just shite and I can't see it. What I don't blame it on is any kind of conspiracy. It can't be sexism because I and all my team are male.

On leaving, if I made a parting shot about the industry being to blame, I'd be ridiculed and rightly so - "the industry" owes me nothing. But if I also blamed it on someone getting my name wrong, just how petty and stupid would that make me look? At least her studio had a hit and she's got something to be proud of. I've got dick all and I'm still here, so I'm afraid any bleating on her part is getting short shrift and does her wider cause no use at all.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 13th October 2015 10:08am

23Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Caspian Prince CEO, Puppy Games5 years ago
Strange, coz I can see more innovation than you can shake a stick at in the independent space. Of course there ain't much money in the independent space, so the AAA studios appear to be making some relatively sane business decisions in that respect by selling generally "more of the same"... as it appears plenty people are happy with that.
7Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.5 years ago
More women = more innovation? I don't think that's how it works.

Now more women = more diversity. That I agree with. But diversity =/ innovation.

Innovation is a calculated risk on the market. I'm 100% certain there are thousands of men and women in the industry that would love to push their innovative ideas onto the market place but can't because the money department demands a checklist that looks awfully familiar to everyone. Simply having more women on the team (a good idea in itself) isn't going to make the money managers sway their green light conditions.

In truth, this is kind of all over the map. Nothing innovative because too many men and then talks about the innovative VR space.
I want women to succeed in this industry. I want equal treatment. I want equal credit. I want equal pay for performance/experience. But this just leaves me scratching my head. I'm hoping the larger narrative of her topic made more sense.
12Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
When I'm recruiting people at work, if 100% of the applicants are women, then call me lazy if you like, but there's a 100% chance that the job is going to go to a woman. Equally if 10 apply, and there are 5 men and 5 women, then there's a 50% chance. As it happens, I'm not turning women down for jobs - I'm just not getting applicants who are female! Last job we advertised (senior artist) had 8 applicants, all of which were men. A man got the job.

Ironically, on the same project, we outsourced some artwork. The best person to approach me for that freelance work was Jane Stroud from CIA. Guess what? She (and her team) got the job!

Amazing. Sounds an awful lot like.... equality...?

The volume of women in the games industry is directly proportional to the amount of women looking for work in the games industry as far as I can tell.
11Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
Sure... But image and the perception of something can affect applicant diversity, so
The volume of women in the games industry is directly proportional to the amount of women looking for work in the games industry as far as I can tell.
may not be the whole story. See, for instance, this: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/opinion/sunday/what-really-keeps-women-out-of-tech.html

With regards to the article, there's not much information here. Perhaps GI could approach Brianna for a transcript of her talk? Or have her write a piece going over the fundamentals of it?
5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
My comment was speaking purely from the point of experience, though - if there aren't women applying for the jobs we have, I can't really give them the jobs! :)
5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
Women are 50% of the productive population, not a special interest group. She seems to be suggesting that gender is the problem with innovation and that doesn't make a lot of sense. It would be interesting to hear more about her angle as I can only see a quote.

That said, I believe more women in games could help boost innovation by increasing the economic output of the industry and introducing more highly skilled workers in general. More innovators and and a stronger economy tends to mean more risks can be taken.

We could definitely look into ways to get more of our productive population into the industry. Other creative sectors are ahead of us there for a variety of reasons.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
David Canela Game & Audio Designer 5 years ago
First of all, innovation purely for innovation's sake is not worth much. Secondly, this reminds me of complaints of people who asked for "next-gen gameplay", completely ignoring that we came in from a rather capable last-gen (if you were willing to compromise on visuals) and neither input- nor output devices have changed significantly. The possibility space thus hasn't grown that much. It is already vast, though, as many games prove, if you're willing to look beyond AAA. How is a lack of correlation between current-gen and a significant increase in innovative gameplay a surprise, then?
6Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Richard Browne Head of External Projects, Digital Extremes5 years ago
Can we call the 15 minutes please? Innovation is a discussion but can we have it with a suitable mix of other veteran indie developers of a single game male, female, transgendered individuals represented across all racial boundaries please. That or the same with people with actual established track records of AAA development and innovative titles?
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Connor Martin Aspiring game designer/tester 5 years ago
"Aren't you all so frustrated playing the same stupid game?"

I'd be willing to consider this a misquote or just a part of her attempts at persuasion but...don't call them stupid, great games and boring games exist in every genre and denouncing any genre even at a saturation point of said genre is immature and mean spirited.

I'd like to see innovation...in a great game, innovation for the sake of it comes so often it is almost half of the games coming out in the first 2 years or so of a console. A great game that creates what has never been done before is unbelievably hard and takes time and a bit of luck.
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Matthew Eakins Technical Lead, HB-Studios5 years ago
I'm very disappointed at the latent hostility in a lot of the comments on here. She makes a valid points that I don't think anyone can reasonably dispute. There isn't a lot of innovation in the current gen space (PS4, XB1). Rehashing the same old tropes in emerging markets (VR) is disappointing. I don't think anyone for certain knows that having more women in the industry will increase innovation but only a diehard troll could argue that having more women in the industry wouldn't be a good thing.
One thing I am certain of is that people who get their hackles up whenever someone talks about gender diversity in the industry do not contribute to a view that the industry is friendly towards women. I don’t see any problem with her message so I can only assume that, if someone does have a problem, it’s with the messenger. Should you find yourself in that camp then I humbly request that you do some introspection. You might just find that, quite possibly unintentionally, you may be a part of a problem.
7Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
James Berg Games User Researcher 5 years ago
Matthew, the objection is that she's tying innovation to gender. More women = more innovation. I'm a big fan of diversity (of all kinds) because it brings more perspectives, so maybe that'll help innovation? But saying that it doesn't exist is silly - we've never had more innovation, it's just happening in the Indie scene. Innovation is slower in AAA because of the budget risks - innovation is, almost by definition, more risky than repeating something that's still popular.

Brianna frequently makes some really great points, but I don't think this is one of them.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Matthew Eakins Technical Lead, HB-Studios5 years ago
Yes, there is innovation in the indie scene but she is specifically talking about PS4 and XB1 in her quote. By talking about the indie scene you are arguing about a point she didn't make.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Matthew Eakins on 13th October 2015 8:48pm

0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
James Berg Games User Researcher 5 years ago
I disagree - Everybody's Gone To The Rapture and Flower are two interesting examples of next-gen Indie games, and both PS4/XB1 have good setups for getting indies onto their system as well. I don't see any reason to believe we'll see fewer indie games there than we saw towards the end of the PS3/XB360 lifecycle.

Upcoming AAA games are showing some interesting innovations as well - The Division, R6 Siege, Battlefront, Fallout 4 - all have interesting new features that are new innovations in established genres. Lego Dimensions adds physical building into the real-toys market, which afaik has never been done.
3Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Jonathan Cooper Animator, Naughty Dog5 years ago
Congratulations on winning male developer bingo! So far we've had:

"Why does everything have to be about gender?"
"I don't see sexism so sexism doesn't exist."
"I hire the best person for the job."
A f**king gamergate video!
"I'm a struggling male game developer so what is she complaining about?"

The reason gender opinion pieces continue to be expressed, (and more importantly published), is exactly because of comments like these.
18Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Jordan Lund Columnist 5 years ago
I'm surprised at the lack of follow-up. When someone says speaking of the PS4/XBO "I see a generation with almost no innovation", the logical follow-up is "Well, what does innovation look like to you?"

She sees the potential in VR, but that's technology that's still a ways away yet. What was the last innovative technology she enjoyed?
3Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Claas Grimm CRO, Red Hot CG5 years ago
"Aren't you all so frustrated playing the same stupid game?" Obviously not. GTA, COD, FIFA, ... sales figures beg to differ.

The same argument was made also when "gen 3" came out. Visual quality is a large portion of the the AAA experience. The AAA experience is what people put money down for. The "gen 4" offers a lot to make bigger and more beautiful games and we are just about to see true next gen releases.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Alfonso Sexto Lead Tester, Ubisoft Germany5 years ago
@Col
"if there aren't women applying for the jobs we have, I can't really give them the jobs!"
Maybe we should wonder then why they aren't applying, if sexism is not such a big deal as some people suggest...

And please, #Gamergate videos? really? what's next? an MRA article?
7Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
I didn't post the gamergate video mate. Until I read about it on the comments here I wasn't even aware of it.

To be honest, if you wanted to get into the why's and what-nots of the lack of women in the games industry, I think you're looking at the wrong end of the journey. As I said, I can't give jobs to women if there are no women doing the jobs I'm hiring for. That's not actually the fault of the games industry - that's a fault of developed culture as it stands at the moment. The lifestyle and 'taste' that is sold to female audiences, and the way they may not be as encouraged as men to be interested in engineering subjects at school and the like. In other words, if the average age of a person in the games industry is 25, then the problem lies approx 23 years before the point the jobs that aren't being applied for by women are being advertised.

It's essentially the same as a plague. If a disease wipes out 90% of people, is it the fault of the final 10% of people that they're the only ones left?

Perhaps it's a binary point of view - I am a programmer after all - but safe to say, in my house, Maths is a big deal for both my daughter and my son. As a side note, I will be encouraging them BOTH away from the games industry (too unstable), but I'd like to think that they both end up doing jobs which were based around sciences and/or engineering.

[edited due to typo]

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Col Rodgers on 14th October 2015 10:23am

11Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Darren Adams Managing Director, ChaosTrend5 years ago
Well Jonathan, your idiot bingo is exactly the type of comment that I would expect when you have no rational answer to questions asked here. Classy, real classy.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out....
8Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Nick McCrea Gentleman, Pocket Starship5 years ago
Further to Col's point, I have a young daughter who is very interested in maths. The three of us and my mother in law were all sitting around the kitchen table, and my daughter mentioned something about something she found difficult...and before any of us could answer my mother in law said something along the lines of "don't worry about it, Maths isn't for girls anyway".

My wife, who is a medical doctor with an additional first-class honours in another biological science, unsurprisingly (given her mum's attitude) considers maths her weakest subject, and never for a second considered going into the physical sciences or engineering. She is at least self-aware enough to realise that she probably inherited this aversion from her upbringing / environment.

So, here I am, sitting trying to encourage my daughter to be interested, and the major women in her life are practically broadcasting into her head, subliminally "DON'T LIKE MATHS". You could argue all day long about what started this cultural aversion, but what's clear to me is that *women themselves* have an enormous part to play in fixing it. Women who were , through no fault of their own, raised to not consider maths and physical sciences "for them" can recognise the pathology at work here and help to break the cycle, because frankly, nothing influences a little girl more than her mother.
12Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
Thanks for your post Nick. This is why I feel its not good enough when we hear; "I don't see why we talk about gender" or "maybe girls just aren't interested".

We should see gender differences, they exist and challenge why it is that historically females may not go into maths or feel confident with it. Both the male (and as you rightly point out) the female influences need to question it and change attitudes and its great to see encouraging fathers in this thread.

Whilst we all have choices in life with regards to what we study and what we want to pursue, a lot of those choices are shaped by external influences.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Adam Campbell on 14th October 2015 11:58am

4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Alfonso Sexto Lead Tester, Ubisoft Germany5 years ago
@Cod
Yeah I know you didn't, that part was meant to whoever did it and not you. sorry about that ;)
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
I think her comments are kind of mixing up game innovations with game revolutions. Innovations don't have to be huge sweeping changes. Many game genres are borrowing aspects from other games. Shooters have crafting in them RPGs have shooter elements in them. In terms of big AAA development you can't expect a studio and a publisher to want to take a huge risk on something that is completely brand new. On occasion you get things that break out of the mold like Mirrors Edge (which to be honest just removed guns from a shooter and created game mechanics around that) but you can't expect a studio / publisher to take risks like that consistently.

Now on the other hand look at a game like GTA. In terms of game mechanics that game hasn't changed a ton, but the innovation that has taken place with the engine is nothing short of amazing.

I did a little research on Brianna Wu and quite frankly given her small body of work (all I saw was an iOS game) I don't feel like she has any credibility to criticize the industry. I am all for having more women in the game industry, as long as they are qualified for the job. My thoughts are on the lack of women in the game industry and to some degree tech in general is just an indication that it is a field that men are more interested in than women.

Why is the conversation about this always to 1 sided? Are we ever asking why there aren't more women mechanics? Why their aren't more women landscapers? So the whole concept of women working in X industry is one that generally cherry picks the data.
6Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
Paul I agree with you. I am sick of people shoe-horning their politics into business.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
Very good point Col. It objectifies men too suggesting they are all just "in it together trying to keep the girls out". Which is utter nonsense.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
@Alfonso "That may be your case, but it's not the general case. Yesterday in this very website we had news of a great female talent leaving the games industry because of how her work was not recognized just for being a woman."

You are talking about the lady with the Chinese Room? I read an article about that but I could not tell from the article what exactly made her come to that conclusion. She has health problems and she should be focused on that. From what I read it sounds very bad. Chinese Room made a deal with Sony to bring their game to PS4 which in and of itself is a great recognition of the entire studio. There are many smaller studios out there that don't get that level of support. I bet there are many man-only shops that wish they had Sony's support.

Her comments seem to me to be without context and at this point I have a knee-jerk reaction against the whole games and sexism thing because I think the whole thing has gotten completely out of proportion. In 2015 there is nothing stopping a bunch of women developers from forming their own studio and showing all us guys how games should be made. Are there some jerk men in the industry? Yea -- there are jerk men in every industry. Go outside for a few hours you may run into an jerk man. On the contrary are their jerk women in the industry? Of course, being a jerk isn't monopolized by men. Anyone of any persuasion can be a jerk.

I am all for more women in any industry, just as long as they are qualified for the work. I am sure there are many men out there that haven't gotten credit for their work, unfortunately they didn't have the gender card to play.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Tom Keresztes Programmer 5 years ago
In 2015 there is nothing stopping a bunch of women developers from forming their own studio and showing all us guys how games should be made.
Giant Spacekat was founded by Brianna Wu, Frank Wu and Amanda S. Warner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfa4ErkfttQ

I am not a games critic to say its lacking innovation. If they spent 500K on this, it does not show.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
Paul I agree with you. I am sick of people shoe-horning their politics into business.
The two are almost-always entwined, either subtly or overtly, and not just in gaming. But nevermind.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
Ohhhhh, burrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnn.

You're being a bit silly now, I think. Bye bye.

/ignore.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
I do find it interesting that comments on this subject always seem to fall into two distinct groups to my ears. Always. And despite each article running to a thousand posts apiece, I think I can summarise it all in a couple of sentences.

1) Developers, publishers, etc. that are actually hiring people in the gaming industry:
"We don't discriminate, we'll hire the best person for the job but we do acknowledge more women and/or minorities wouldn't hurt so are receptive."

2) Bloggers, Critics, "Thinkers", Agitators, People who want to be involved in policy making but aren't:
"It's all shit and the industry is full of bigotry and oppression. And it's all white mans fault. You need me to fix it and if you don't agree I will ridicule you."

The interests of both parties I think speak for themselves.

(edited for spellign)

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 15th October 2015 12:55pm

13Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
Are we ever asking why there aren't more women mechanics?
On gi-biz?

We could perhaps only discuss gender issues as a whole, so looking at every industry. Sure. Although I think the reason you don't often get stories on gi-biz about women in mechanics is because this is gi-biz.
PaulAnd despite each article running to a thousand posts apiece, I think I can summarise it all in a couple of sentences.

"It's all shit and the industry is full of bigotry and oppression. It's all white mans fault"
If that's all you got. Just wow!!

What about, games companies are just hiring the best candidate they see while also acknowledging that their are social influences, biases and elements of nature. For example women tend to have less confidence in maths and science despite their aptitude, which might be explained by higher levels of testosterone in males benefiting from the current method of teaching (and being a former competition mathematician, I know a thing or two). At the same time, biases can't be denied.

Paul, what I tend to see are a variety of perspectives. You have the defensive games developer who only wants to blindly defend because they feel the industry is being attacked.

You have the thinkers who simply look at the world for what it is and attempt to relay the situation, which sadly falls on death ears.

You have the emotionally involved.

You have the activist.

But if all you're perceiving is, " white man bad, " something is terribly wrong. Terribly wrong.

I think it's often the case that people who aren't perceptive of a matter can be quick to ignore it. If you don't understand psychology, then things that are well known in psychology if brought to your attention may seem so alien to you that you quickly deny it, particularly if you perceive it as a threat instead of what it is - an observation and understanding.

Also it's clear that some people just don't like to think but rather do little more than express their point of view and perspective, which tends to just decay into a, "me right, you wrong," type of discussion.

It is because of the thinkers that we have all this technology, society and brilliant economy.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 15th October 2015 12:46pm

4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
What about, games companies are just hiring the best candidate they see while also acknowledging that their are also social influences biases and elements of nature. For example women tend to have less confidence in maths and science despite their aptitude, which might be explained by higher levels of testosterone in males benefiting from the current method of teaching (and being a former competition mathematician, I know a thing or two).
Because the people at the doing end know all that. 35 years ago when I was at comprehensive school, whilst the lads were doing double metalwork, the girls were doing double cooking. That's all changed now and in 10-20 more years I expect the landscape will look very different. All this deep thinking, introspecitve claptrap doesn't need to go beyond that observation. When more skilled women are available, more skilled women will get hired.

I'm not going one to one with your other points, you seem to want to overthink and analyse everything in micro detail and I just haven't got the time or inclination as it's not needed.
8Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
That's the thing Paul. This "claptrap" thinking has identified many things that elude simple thinking. You just seem to want to ignore it because you can't be bothered to take the time to investigate it and it doesn't really affect you personally.

You do know that most effective methods in advertising, branding, customer service and leadership are the result of all this "claptrap introspection." When a AAA game is released, that huge marketing budget, those record breaking sales and revenue figures - yeah, all a result of "claptrap" introspection, which you'd know if you knew the historical events where business, advertising and leadership met with psychology.

Just because you don't understand sociology and psychology, doesn't mean it's all bollocks and isn't needed. This is willful ignorance as the facts show otherwise, if only you'd open your eyes and look. This is no better than people who put gaming down as just a waste of time and a childish activity because they couldn't understand it. Are you not showing the same pattern of consideration and thought to psychology and sociology.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 15th October 2015 1:09pm

5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
I'm sure it has a reason to exist, but it's not needed HERE. This is ostensibly a convesation about why women are under-represented in game development (and other STEM techie jobs for that matter). I've told you why that is in my previous post, it's a fact not an opinion.

All the psychology and social aspects of examining why women were once thought only good for cooking and having babies, where society has gone since then, things of that ilk? I'm sure it's all fascinating but it's just filling in the details. And I agree those details aren't pleasant by todays more enlightened standards. But I don't need to know all this to make a decision on which person to hire next week.
7Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
I do think that the subject of innovation is probably much more interesting to discuss than the strength of Wu's comments on gender.

Risk has been discussed, as well as the many innovations in GTA. Personally I always found GTA to be a game that is most open to innovation. It's been able to cover so many types of play, from Crazy Taxi and Need for Speed to stealth shooting and underground cage fights.

Google are consistently innovative because it is a major part of their core corporate values - devoting 20% of their workforce to free experimentation. Nintendo are consistently innovative (albeit with safe bets on using old brands), because it is a major part of their core corporate values.

There are also innovations in reiterations.

Plot twist: could the push towards cultural gender neutrality reduce the potential for innovation gained from diverse perspectives between genders?
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
Well if you want to go there...

I personally don't want innovation. I've been exposed to a lot of different ideas for good games over the years, and I've gotten to know what I like best in general terms. I want more of that instead please, small iterative improvements that make what I like even better over time.

Surely this industry is mature enough now that it just doesn't need to go in a radical new direction every week.
5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
I'm sure it has a reason to exist, but it's not needed HERE. This is ostensibly a conversation about why women are under-represented in game development (and other STEM techie jobs for that matter).
...
I'm sure it's all fascinating but it's just filling in the details. And I agree those details aren't pleasant by todays more enlightened standards. But I don't need to know all this to make a decision on which person to hire next week.
It's all gradients, is the thing... People's knowledge, opinions and bias all vary, especially when you consider the international view of gaming. Are you telling me that game dev in the far east (where Confucianism's influence in the past tended to favouring men over women) is the exact same thing as game dev in, say... Iceland? What about dev in Muslim countries? Even in a heavily Westernised Middle East country like Kuwait, I imagine the role of women in game dev (and the role of playable female characters) differs dramatically to the UK.

This is why sociological and psychological aspects are a good thing to examine. Is it a tired conversation? Sure it is... But Good Lord, when Jennifer Lawrence is writing essays about continued pay inequality in Hollywood, you can't honestly say that game dev doesn't need to examine itself at all.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
I could 'fix' this post Paul to what I often hear. Please just take this as an expression of how perspectives change;
1) Developers, publishers, bloggers, outsiders some who are and aren't hiring people in the games industry:

"We don't discriminate, we'll hire the best person for the job. We're all equal right? So we don't care about race or gender. We don't want to hear about anyone's differences or experiences. Structural issues in the industry? Non existent, people are so entitled, think we're causing problems for them, just get on with it."

2)Developers, publishers, bloggers, outsiders some who are and aren't hiring people in the games industry:

"The games industry is wonderful, but like any its not perfect. There are issues and there are struggles. When people talk about and express their lived experiences, we should listen to and take that into account and attempt to address those issues, whether they're confined cases or part of a wider problem."
There's a lot of defensiveness and misunderstanding, often from 'both sides' that form. But topics such as gender, race, sexuality and so on are just going to keep coming up.

Like one musician said to another in slightly different context, "If you want to enjoy our culture and our lifestyle, bond with us, dance with us, have fun with us, then you should also want to know what affects us, what is bothering us, what we feel is unfair to us. You shouldn’t not want to know that.’’ it was a response to being silenced and tone policed on her and her communities concerns.

The industry only exists because of the people that make it, like you and me. Its all well and good enjoying the benefits and all the wonderful things they bring to it, the fun, the finance, the launch day, but you can't just take the good and not the bad. It won't just go away I'm afraid, so we either take pause and a small amount of energy to listen to it, or we just ignore it. Either way its a choice, but the same arguments are getting old.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Adam Campbell on 15th October 2015 2:09pm

6Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Nick McCrea Gentleman, Pocket Starship5 years ago
Adam I agree with you completely.

But, in my honest opinion as a relative neutral in all these debates (which I think my post history would back up), people on one 'side' often want to live in a hermetically sealed bubble with fellow ideological travellers, and it isn't the one Paul is on. Paul might react defensively, sometimes brusquely, but always honestly and I think he carefully observes the line between robustly representing his views, and being rude.

I actually think the internet is making people more narrow minded, not less. We seem to always seek out the opinions that validate our own, and constantly seem to try to 'cleanse' whatever communities we are involved in of dissenting views.

I really don't feel that way at all. I enjoy all of the well-argued posts, and actually see a lot of merit in what a lot of you, even on opposing sides, say. I don't actually see it as much of a dichotomy to find a lot of worth in both, say, Paul's or John's contributions, as well as someone like Jessica, or Morville.

What I do find exceptionally tedious is the snark and the personal stuff that always creeps in. I guess this is a bit of a plea for tolerance and acceptance that other people can have different views and it doesn't necessarily make them wrong, bigoted, naive or all of the above. Am I really such a rarity? Can't we just discuss stuff without blocking and ignoring and denigrating each other?
8Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
Can't we just discuss stuff without blocking and ignoring and denigrating each other?
I always hope so at times just feels impossible to get to that point, or even if we do, we can't seem to stay there. Nick, I've seen some really shocking statements either way over the past few months which I can't erase and I know these aren't unique positions. Every week feels like more and more of an eye opener for me in this industry and not in a good way.

As I said above, we're all different and we all contribute. My personal argument (outside this topic) usually surrounds trying to get others to listen and consider what those valuable people within the industry have to say even if we aren't experiencing it. Unfortunately, that means falling into a trap of losing the opportunity to express what progress looks like or actual solutions.

For myself, there are replicated problems and practices which have profoundly affected me and there are too many people that have experienced the same things. However, when it comes down to it, only a minority address it partly because of differences in actual experience and partly because of varying levels to which we as individuals or groups feel empowered to make change.

Sometimes statements like Brianna's above are highly questionable and I completely agree, but one view with a subtext doesn't reflect all others or form part of a conspiracy. Both so-called sides have dragged in completely unrelated topics. Innovation with a subtext of gender has nothing to do with a previous specific topic.

There are some really interesting points here as the discussion has developed.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Adam Campbell on 15th October 2015 3:33pm

4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
I'm glad Godaddy has done this and I look forward to other companies following.
Sure thing.

For the quality of people I hire, they all get a piss poor flat rate of 35K a year plus 6 weeks flexible vacation time, an additional week at christmas, and bonuses that actually appear when we're doing well.

That can be seen as the male rate if you like as we're all male. If there's ever a female coder here that's good enough to pass my ridiculously high bar, she will get the same. If she'd settle for less than the others, I wouldn't hire her.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
Why? They're more likely to have ironclad policy on this stuff. I pretty much make it up as I go along and am too small to be on anyone's radar. If there are going to be problems, they'll be right here at tiny companies.
6Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@Paul: nobody is attacking you or accusing you of discriminating against women. Relax!

If sociology and psychology doesn't interest you then that is okay. No need to tell people the subjects are unnecessary if you're not even going to take the time to investigate the subject for yourself. The evidence shows a clear need for study and work in the area. Biases have been confirmed Paul, hence why bias is being addressed not because of "claptrap," but because of actual evidence. Nobody is saying, "you are biasing against women, that's why you have a full male team." Relax, there really is no need to get defensive.

Maybe women are bad at maths, or maybe our maths is bad at suiting women's learning preferences. I tutored a girl from a D (or an E) to a B in 6 sessions just by suiting her learning style.

Perhaps Wu's comments set a bad tone, but does that mean we cannot rise above that and still discuss the topic intelligently (or if disinterested in the subject just not get involved at all). Willful ignorance does no good in a discussion and only seeks to increase the likelihood of ad-hominem and a lower quality of "debate."

The reason why I suggested it best to focus on the subject of innovation is because it is clear that it is the only subject that could be discussed here and yield constructive results.
She suggested empathy was the building block currently missing from game development, and VR could offer a way to incorporate that with your motion, your eyes and the tone of your voice.
Thoughts?

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 15th October 2015 4:33pm

3Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
Imagine I'm not actually huffing and puffing at this point and read my posts again. I'm certainly not defending myself as I don't feel I need to. I actually don't even feel as if I was being attacked tbh. I do ten to adopt a brusque writing style around people doing the opposite, for the same reason I will shoot anyone on sight that spouts bizspeak at me.

Also, I am acknowledging there's a current problem. But it's already been fixed and the changes are already coming. However changes to culture happen very slowly and in fact the new focus on STEM teaching in schools is only really getting started right now. It was even worse several years ago when the computer courses were literally about how to use MS Word (for all sexes)

I mentioned my own high bar for recruitment for example. It's basically 20+ years of varied experience I'm after, which makes any potential employee 35+ by default. 20+ years ago, school age for those, not only were girls not encouraged into these sorts of areas, any that showed interested got warned off.

That's freakin apalling. But it happened, and the world as we see it now is based around what happened then. I can't hire female coders that fit my requirements simply because their aren't any*. That's not me being defensive, that's me explaining to you why there are less women in game development.

(*Yes I'm generalising for brevity, gimme a break)
8Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd5 years ago
Unless you've started subcontracting for NASA or something, 20+ years' experience is an absurd requirement. It's understandable that you prefer to hire people with similar backgrounds and experiences, but call it for what it is.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
Unless you've started subcontracting for NASA or something, 20+ years' experience is an absurd requirement. It's understandable that you prefer to hire people with similar backgrounds and experiences, but call it for what it is.
There's a ton of people about with this much experience, but I doubt you will have met any as a crossword publisher. If you had, you'd instantly appreciate how valuable, versatile and useful they are, especially to smaller companies trying to punch above their weight.

There are four people in my office and we're all over 45. Sorry if the fact itself or the fact I prefer it that way offends you. What is this really, ageism?

And whilst I'm on a roll, why would at least four people upvote someone for making an obviously uninformed shot in the dark about something he cannot possibly know anything about. Oh wait a minute....

There, that's me defending myself. Time to stop editing and leave...

Edited 6 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 15th October 2015 9:14pm

8Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
TL;DR.

This all escalated quickly.

@Keldon - it's all very well talking about shades of grey and psychology and sociology, but unfortunately games is just a business. Neither myself nor any other 'man' on this (over discussed) thread can do anything about the wider view of why more women don't enter the games industry.

As I alluded to in one of my previous posts, it's definitely not the fault of the games industry. Now, I'm talking about the companies that make games. They have employees who come to work, make some stuff and go home. I'm NOT talking about internet trolls who want to stalk girls with threats of rape in situations like Gamer Gate - they're not "The Games Industry", they're mentally sick individuals who need to have a discussion with the police about their behaviour.

It really is somewhat degrading to see so many people try to argue with a very simple set of circumstances -

1) I have a requirement for a new member of staff. I advertise that job.
2) I look at all applicants and employ the best one for the job.

In the last 2 months, at work, we've hired 3 people. 2 producers and one artist. As I mentioned earlier, we had NO female applicants for the art role. We had TWO female applicants and two male applicants for the producer roles. We hired a guy for the art job (as that was the only option) and one woman and one guy for the producer roles - as they were the best people for the jobs.

I hope Paul is right about how things are different now with regard to education. I make no bones about the fact that I don't want my daughter to rely on anyone to be able to live the best life she can, and a pretty hardcore education is key to that - but ultimately if she decides to go and study medicine, or law instead of engineering, will I be bothered by that? If it just doesn't interest her to worry about maths and the logic contained in a bit of code? No! Not in the slightest!

All of that aside, though - the fact remains that if there aren't female applicants, we cannot hire female staff! Suggesting that is lazy, or avoiding the issue is simply wrong! Those of us who are hiring are trying to run businesses, not careers advice centres! We can't go out onto the streets and demand that more women take an interest in what we do - even thinking that it would be possible for individuals to change the way that a nation thinks about things is just talking gibberish to be quite frank.

The change has to come from the bottom. My father wanted me to be an accountant. I became a software engineer writing games because that is what interested me. There was no encouragement for this at school - my teachers actually told me I would be 'wasting my life' if I wrote games for a living (arguably, they were right), but I still found my own way here because it's what I wanted to do. I'm sure that every female software engineer got there by similar means, to be honest, but either way, trying to apportion some kind of blame to the companies at the end of the line (essentially like the leaf shoots on a tree) is ridiculous when in all likelihood the problems are actually at the very tip of the roots of the tree instead.

It's pretty easy to jump on a band wagon because it all seems groovy and people are getting excited about being part of the latest drama, but if you actually take a step back and look at things, the 'drama' that appears is often no more than a misinterpretation of what is really going on - and I'm afraid in this case - and throughout this entire discussion - I think that's exactly what is happening.

/Peace out
5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
@John Owens

How is Morville (and people like him) making the issue of politics and business worse? Do you two have history?
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
@Jonathan Cooper

I am having problems understanding your comment. Are you suggesting that these opinion pieces are still needed because of an obvious problem that still exists or are you suggesting that perhaps we have heard enough of the gender and video games narrative?

I said this in a previous comment, but it kind of bothers me this conversation is so 1-sided. Are we ever asking why there aren't more women mechanics? Why their aren't more women landscapers?
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rich Allen Freelance Game Author 5 years ago
@Morville

The part where they actually have a control and experimental group is telling. I really don't think it says that much about the industry and says MUCH MORE about WOMEN.

"In another experiment, Dr. Cheryan and her colleagues arranged for female undergraduates to talk to an actor pretending to be a computer science major. If the actor wore a T-shirt that said “I CODE THEREFORE I AM” and claimed to enjoy video games, the students expressed less interest in studying computer science than if the actor wore a solid shirt and claimed to enjoy hanging out with friends — even if the T-shirt-clad actor was another woman."

IMHO this seems to say women are judgmental by nature. I suppose in a way this makes sense, being that women are the gender that bears children in humans they may be more adept in social situations as a result of evolution. So perhaps their judgmental nature causes them to avoid career paths they would otherwise be qualified for. Tech is too "geeky and nerdy" for them.

The question is should tech change to "welcome" women or should women get into tech and be the change they want to see?
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@Col: I'm not blaming the companies or saying anything of that nature. In fact one of my earlier comments said that this is outside of our locust of control but gi-biz is raising awareness about the subject for your perusal and also so that you may lend your support to it if you wish.

I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, I just happen to take an interest in these subjects, and find it far too easy to overlook. The same things I see being said about female's interest (and in some cases ability) in maths is exactly what was incorrectly said about their academic interst and ability just 150 years ago until we realized it was down to a teaching style that favoured boys.

As you said, we are not psychologists and sociologists, which was my point also. But the opposition we often see to sociological subjects is based purely on willful ignorance and unwillingness to even consider what is raised, perhaps due to the misconception that they are being blamed or being asked to solve the problem.

The way I see it is that matters of our society are being attended to by those that way inclined and it in some way relates to the video games industry. Some of these stories and articles might relate to groups with an agenda and some may not, but this is what is going on and hopefully it is carried out in a balanced way and is purposeful. Thus far, having taken the time to investigate myself I would just say there is substance behind this subject. There are bandwagons, but there is also a legitimate investigation and understanding.
1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
I said this in a previous comment, but it kind of bothers me this conversation is so 1-sided. Are we ever asking why there aren't more women mechanics? Why their aren't more women landscapers?
Maybe its because we tend to focus on the industry we work in? Women in the automotive industry is actually a widely discussed topic, as is gender balance in the National Health Service, which is dominated by women.

Its hard to escape the subject seeing as there are many discussions to be had about it. At is most basic, the argument is economic, as like I personally suggested, we're talking about two halves of a nation's productive workforce.

Other debates may include the dynamics of people within an industry and the natural side effects of gender imbalance, many of which are subtle, some perhaps not so. We do actually have trade bodies like UKIE considering these factors as they attempt to work across the industry to make it flourish.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
as is gender balance in the National Health Service, which is dominated by women
Can I just underline my thing here. The NHS is dominated by women because far more nurses are needed than doctors. In school, "Nurse" has always been a grade A pick for pushing on girls whilst it's been a taboo subject for boys. "Surgeon" otoh was a grade A pick for pushing on boys and taboo for girls.

So ingrained into society was this particular idea, that "Nurse" as a job title came with gender flavours. It still might, I'm not sure tbh. There was "Nurse" and there was "Male Nurse". Male nurse being the obvious exception to the norm.

And that's all of it. Any social debate about WHY those choices were made, how wrong-headed, blah, etc. is all in the past. Today there is just consequence and the opportunity to correct the streaming for the future, which has doubtless happened already too. There's just nothing to talk about anymore, it's been done and you missed it.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 15th October 2015 11:10pm

5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
OK
Can I just underline my thing here. The NHS is dominated by women because far more nurses are needed than doctors....
75% of the NHS is female. 90% of nursing is female. 60% of doctors are female. Others (haven't checked). Nursing has a chronic shortage in the UK and the medical field and only 10% of those trained and brought into the system come from 50% of the productive population of men.

Is the solution to get more women into nursing? More men? Or look increasingly abroad, despite obvious issues there? The shortage is a fact as far as demand for skills goes. There's also an issue regarding maternity and part time working when it comes to the balance.
So ingrained into society was this particular idea, that "Nurse" as a job title came with gender flavours...
I agree, more than just the name it was considered a job for women by and large and perhaps it boomed after WWII?
It still might, I'm not sure tbh...
And that's all of it.... Any social debate about WHY those choices were made, how wrong-headed, blah, etc. is all in the past.....
Snipped out most of that for clarity. OK. So, the answer is you don't actually know the source of the problem and its all over? No skills shortage, no room for growth? Right.
Today there is just consequence and the opportunity to correct the streaming for the future, which has doubtless happened already too. There's just nothing to talk about anymore, it's been done and you missed it.
OK, so we determined you don't really know the source of the problem, its apparently fixed and that fix has been missed (despite the fact it has not) and now the discussion is closed down and nothing to talk about? Do you not see a problem with this? :) :) :)

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Adam Campbell on 15th October 2015 11:37pm

4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
Perhaps very few people care but these facts and discussions really matter to me. I know a lot of people are focussed on their own teams and their own jobs, but I feel part of the responsibility to really discuss what happens next not just now and be a part of it. This is a games industry specific site, so I think its the correct forum to engage with other professionals that might care.

If we're so insular I often wonder why discuss these things at all? I can't imagine doing this on IGN or Eurogamer, even though we have much of the same news there. Along with my offline discussion and debate, I still want to use online spaces.

I'm not giving up yet, but I hope its actually possible without the discussion being closed down.
6Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
OK. So, the answer is you don't actually know the source of the problem and its all over?
Seriously friend, you just made my head explode. Maybe this is why these things go round and round. Wanna try again?
Is the solution to get more women into nursing? More men? Or look increasingly abroad, despite obvious issues there? The shortage is a fact as far as demand for skills goes
More of everyone is clearly needed. The short term solution is to mop up all available trained immigrants right the hell now as people are dying and it takes years to train new staff. Language barrier, politics of immigration generally etc., are small beer when it comes to curing the sick and dying. In the longer term, we should be training new people of our own of course.

However once again you've tried to move the goalposts and inject some straw men. I was explaining why we're in this mess right now, which is relevant to the actual debate. However a talk about how to get out of inherited problems in the NHS is something different entirely. I don't have expertise or even imagination for that one so I'll leave it to the people who think they know how to cure all the worlds ills. I know it seems easy to do that but it's because you have no clue whatsoever about the actual situation on the ground. You think politicians enjoy fucking this one up on purpose? Actually, don't answer that as it insults my intelligence when people think they can fix things they have zero actual knowledge of. Like you and I in this case.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 15th October 2015 11:52pm

4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
Paul, you basically closed down the discussion and said any talk was in the past and is no longer an issue.
Any social debate about WHY those choices were made, how wrong-headed, blah, etc. is all in the past.
Today there is just consequence and the opportunity to correct the streaming for the future, which has doubtless happened already too. There's just nothing to talk about anymore, it's been done and you missed it.
I often use these types of parallels with other sectors to make a point, which I hope Rich Allen gets in this context. Its a discussion that isn't just a games thing but we talk about the implications elsewhere. These things go round and round because some people don't want to hear and that's OK, I just don't see the point derailing and throwing it in the bin.

The question I answered was about why these things aren't discussed elsewhere, well, they are. Its just as relevant to those who want to talk about it.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Adam Campbell on 15th October 2015 11:51pm

5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
Seriously friend, you just made my head explode. Maybe this is why these things go round and round. Wanna try again?
I think these go round and round because of the unwillingness people show towards actually exploring and discussing the subject, which requires a tad bit of paying attention to and perusing other points of view and information that might conflict with your worldview - not just for the sake finding a victor of debate, but for the sake of intelligent discussion.

Clearly the case is closed in your mind, so everything raised to discussion is just pointless whiff-waff about nothing, and social scientists are just wasting their time with all their graphs and studies.

Maybe the world is exactly as simple as it seems in your mind, but if it were not the case then surely your current behavior would prevent you from knowing any better. If you have no curiosity about the subject, can't see how telling those that are that there is nothing to see without having seen what there is to talk about.
Adam: If we're so insular I often wonder why discuss these things at all? ... I just don't see the point derailing and thrown in the bin.
My thoughts exactly.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 15th October 2015 11:53pm

3Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
Can't discuss the topic. Can't discuss the subtext of the topic. Can't discuss any research or parallels with the topic. Can't even talk to those who might be interested without the derailment. I might honestly join the exodus and look elsewhere. LinkedIn group anyone?
5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
@Keldon and largely @Adam too.
I'm now starting to look for the hidden cameras. I know you disagree with me and don't like my position and you're really keen to have a go back. I get that.

But it just doesn't count for anything if you misquote, misunderstand or just plain reinterpret what I've actually been talking about. You think you want a debate but you clearly have no actual skills at debating. The irony of you asserting that I am close minded is amazing. Nothing I've said even requires an open mind, but you just seem to inject what I've said into your own diatribe and agenda, at the most convienient place, and just carry on regardless. You're so blinkered you can't even get your opponent right for the fight you seem to want to have.

Let me just spell this out one last time. Please just read it and take it at face value because your inability to understand me is one thing, that might even be my fault, but misrepresenting me with the tone you are using to the length you're stretching is bordering on abusive. Here it comes one more time. It's the same thing a third time. Maybe the all caps will help.

I AM EXPLAINING HOW THINGS GOT TO THE POINT WE'RE AT NOW WITH ASSYMETRIC EMPLOYMENT FOR THE GENDERS. NOTHING MORE. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH MY ASSERTIONS THEN FINE, DISCUSS THEM AS I MAY BE WRONG EVEN THOUGH I'M SURE I'M NOT AS UNLIKE YOU GUYS I ACTUALLY LIVED THROUGH IT. DO NOT EXTEND ANYTHING IVE SAID TO ANYTHING ELSE ON YOUR OWN AGENDA - YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN POINTS WITHOUT ME. THANK YOU.

HOW WE CAN GET OUT OF THIS MESS, WHAT SHOULD BE DONE, CAN/SHOULD IT BE FIXED, ETC. I, LIKE YOU, AM NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT, AND THIS ALSO HAPPENS TO BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DISCUSSION TO THE ONE I'M IN. I MADE NO COMMENTARY AT ALL ON THIS ASPECT. CONFLATE THE TWO IF YOU MUST BUT KEEP ME OUT OF IT.

Thank you.

Edited 4 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 16th October 2015 12:34am

5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
I gave what I thought to be a very knowledgable and precise answer to a specific question. Even if you took issue with it, it was absolutely presented as a viable explanation to the source of the problem being discussed. Your response was the following:
OK. So, the answer is you don't actually know the source of the problem
And you managed to actually go downhill from there, so in relation to
I'm not here to battle.
I think you're taking the piss. Stop misrepresenting me and putting words in my mouth. Troll tactics have no place here.
You've lost me.
Because I've lost you, I'll explain. One example should do but you've been hard at it all over..
I think these go round and round because of the unwillingness people show towards actually exploring and discussing the subject, which requires a tad bit of paying attention to and perusing other points of view and information that might conflict with your worldview
The emphasis is mine. "The Subject" you seem to be talking about is clearly not the one I was talking about, which should be obvious if you stop seeing me as your enemy. Yet you used previous quotes of mine within that context. It's tantatmount to libel which is why I didn't just let this slide. There's more, but you get the gist.

It's quite possible "we've" been talking at crossed purposes for some time, but I actually haven't. Unlike yourself and Adam who seems to enjoy bobbing and weaving all over the place, as trolls are wont to do when they're losing ground, my entire contribution is on one single theme that I actually think I know about. The appalling streaming of the sexes that was happening probably before the pair of you were even born that I was actually a subject of.

Here's one from Adam for example
The question I answered was about why these things aren't discussed elsewhere, well, they are. Its just as relevant to those who want to talk about it.
He's trying to pull me into this with a quote, but once again I just don't know what he's on about. Emphasis mine. When I was talking "these things" were quite clearly a discussion on "where are the women at". I told him. That part just doesn't need discussing, it was a question not a subject. I answered it. Done. He seems to want to discuss tangential things too though, and that's fine, but again the tangential topics were not something I was involved in to "shut down". From there he quickly descended into silly primadonna stuff that I thought he was above.

I should also be above wasting my time trying to defend myself against trolling for all to see, but for some reason your +1 tag team really got under my skin, and that's not like me at all. Very unprofessional of me, so kudos for getting that out.

I really am finished with this thread now, the floor is yours..

Edited 6 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 16th October 2015 1:52am

1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
@ Col

Genuinely not trying to be argumentative, please don't take this that way...
As I alluded to in one of my previous posts, it's definitely not the fault of the games industry.
Sweeping generalisation. Yes, so much of it is down to education and cultural/social norms, but there's been sexism in the games industry in the recent past (Google "Trendy entertainment" " Jeremy Stieglitz" for example), so who is to say that there isn't any more now. Which ties into..

Edit: This is a general comment about what men can do. Not aimed at Col specifically.
Neither myself nor any other 'man' on this (over discussed) thread can do anything about the wider view of why more women don't enter the games industry.
Yeah, I think we can, even in this comments section of a website. We can not have argumentative men saying a fellow professional can't be objective (code for "she's an emotional woman"). We can examine the bias of people we work with/for. We can make the industry more welcoming by uniformly arguing against crunch, considering women (generally) favour a better work/home life balance in their employment than what gaming is perceived to have now.

Like I say, I'm not trying to be argumentative or rude, because you genuinely seem like you're trying to deal with the issue, but... I think it's pretty telling that the vast majority of comments in this and the Jessica Curry piece are from men.

Peace, yo. :)

Edited 6 times. Last edit by Morville O'Driscoll on 16th October 2015 10:49am

4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@Adam: I'd go for linked in. For anyone interested I am part of a group that hold events in parliament where we invite notable speakers and MP's on various subjects centred around human rights and equality.

We could have a panel discussion on the subject as a whole with panelists representing different industries and points of view. I would imagine it to be a much more productive method. Just this week we were discussing getting political education in parliament.

How does that sound?

Edited 4 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 16th October 2015 2:48pm

1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
John: it's more narrow than gender or race and can more accurately described as "birds of a feather flock together".
Yes. This was a possibility I raised in an earlier thread based on the dominant role that networking plays in recruitment.
I really don't think there's an issue and I think the financial statistics on wages will show that
1. http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-11-14/women-make-less-than-men-even-when-they-are-equally-qualified-mbas

2. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/
Here you have females perceived as having lower skill, which would explain #1, distorting the meritocracy a tad bit.

3. http://m.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474.full
A scientific study in relation to #2

The subject is tricky as I feel many of the studies ask the wrong questions, for example I've yet to see a study that attempts to analyse the impact of non verbal communication during the interview stage, for which we do have the technology for. I feel there aren't half as many studies on the pay of people with equal levels of skill when discussing wage gaps. Because of the lack of those studies, people in discussions will still rightfully have queries as there are significant gaps in data.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 16th October 2015 8:16am

2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
That's exactly what you and your like do and you are borderline abusive when doing it.
Me and my like? What like is that exactly John? What roles have I projected specifically? In fact quote me giving someone a role and accusing them of exhibiting intentionally negative behaviour relating to an antagonistic role, please, for clarity. Or back up your ad-hominem accusation (on a public professional site I might add).

I remember saying, "nobody here trolls, hence why I don't put anyone on ignore." Just for reference.

Please, quote me or retract your statement.

Perhaps you're lumping me together with other people, which is understandable as I don't use a picture.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 16th October 2015 8:25am

2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@John: quote me explicitly assigning a role. Harshness is irrelevant, you made a false claim about me in public. Back it up, please.

What left leaning view exactly? John. Don't just generalise. All I've done is share what studies have shown, that implies no political orientation.

I've used language that does not contradict right leaning principles, in fact I've quite openly acknowledged and addressed the subject in relation to meritocracy. I've shared articles from Bloomberg and Forbes, which echo everything I'm saying.

So please, be specific. The left leaning straw man needs to be put to rest. Politics, I might add is much bigger than just left and right orientation.

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/solutions-shape-factual-belief/

I prefer to think and discern rather than subscribe to a viewpoint.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 16th October 2015 8:40am

1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
What opinion John? We went over this before. I never said the solution is forced inequality. Is that the opinion? I've always spoken against forced inequality, but one comment I made about forced inequality has been taken out of its context and each correction gets forgotten and only the misinterpretation recalled.

And yes, it would be perceived.
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
...you made a false claim about me in public. Back it up, please.
one comment I made ... has been taken out of its context
You don't seem to like that? My head just exploded again.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Paul Johnson on 16th October 2015 9:01am

1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
But we're now supposed to accept people's perception as fact aren't we?
I've never suggested that or made any comment that would give that impression, ever. I think it was actually Morville who said that.

I'm well aware of the subjectivity of human experience. No, I simply look at studies that show bias does exist without any doubt, not because it fits my worldview, but because I can discern the quality of the science (in some studies).
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
I've never suggested that or made any comment that would give that impression, ever. I think it was actually Morville who said that.
Aye... Perhaps clouded the issue somewhat, so I'll amend my comment there. :)
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Tom Keresztes Programmer 5 years ago
Worth considering :

http://www.michaelcrichton.com/why-politicized-science-is-dangerous/
But as Alston Chase put it, “when the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power.”

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Tom Keresztes on 16th October 2015 9:36am

3Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@John: have you examined any of the studies I've posted. They are real world and carried out by people with no agenda. Studies aren't all theoretical and just relevant to the laboratory or made by people with political agendas, especially the one I posted.

And it's not about winning by the way. It makes the discussion difficult if vital items are just outright ignored rather than discussed.

Some studies don't reflect the real world, true, but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant because it's a study. I judge a study on the quality of the science and look at what it means.

There's a phenomena in medicine called neurophobia, which is an aversion to neurology. I think a similar thing happens to science - particularly the social sciences.

How could bias be better confirmed or denied? Because the quality of discussion will always be low if we can't establish any agreed facts if you think about it.

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 16th October 2015 9:58am

1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
So if 4 friends start a small company with the aim of making the next greatest 2D fighting game the likelihood is that they will aim to make the game they want to play which invariably means more hardcore.

With people of different experiences and skill levels it would force them to cater for a more mass market audience. e.g. 4 expert Street Fighter 2 fans are less likely to innovate and build in an auto-block feature.
This is very true.

I think Nintendo did a great job with Mario Kart on the Wii. At first I didn't agree with the mechanic but revisiting the game years later I found it kept it fun for everyone.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
@Morville

If you're not trying to be argumentative, then please don't misquote me.

I didn't actually say anything about Briana (that's actually the first time I've typed her name in this entire diatribe), or her being objective (my comments are more 'I can't get resources that don't exist!!) - you're simply trying to force words against your own objective into my mouth. I also don't think this is anything to do with someone being an 'emotional' woman (seriously WTF!?). In fact, I was bordering on reporting your post as I find that so utterly insulting.

This whole thread is being discussed on multiple different levels that individuals have introduced, and tried to superimpose on the people who are just factually stating where they find themselves now.

I've worked for Acclaim, Software Creations, Virtucraft, Runecraft, Jester Interactive, Rage, EA, SEGA and SONY. If I'd ever seen anyone held back because of their gender, I would have gone *nuclear*.

The fact remains. If there aren't enough women engineers, that's NOT the fault of the games industry (to try to explain it in a difference sense, we are the 'end customer' for staff produced by 'the system'). The only way to level the gender divide (which I openly admit there is), is to create MORE. FEMALE. ENGINEERS.

Is that the job of the games industry? Well, unless we actually start to fund primary schools, no, it isn't. The issue is the root of the tree, NOT the buds at the end of the branches.

It genuinely amazes me that a bloke like me can come on here and say, 'gender doesn't matter, we have jobs, come and get them', and you are trying to demonise my statements to by suggesting that I'm saying someone can't be objective because she's 'an emotional woman'. I guess your job title as 'critic' works well in that respect. Here's an interpretation for you, 'I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I am'.
7Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@Tom: and how do you discern science from politicised science? Or better yet, what would be a good scientific approach to confirming our denying gender bias?

And how does the difference between a male and female name determining the wage offered and level of skill perceived not indicate the presence of bias?
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
And I'll reiterate, for me it's not about winning. We all have our own logical approaches to the progression of a discussion. Mine involves examining the truth of a matter, or finding a better way of determining it. Tends to work better in person where tone of voice and other non verbal forms of communication are present.
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Paul Johnson Managing Director / Lead code monkey, Rubicon Development5 years ago
Just for clarity, what false claim do you think I made about you, exactly?
I already answered this, but of course you just don't read what people with opposing views put, including that specifically, so what would be the point of doing so again.

In any case, I'm really not that bothered whether you understand me or not now tbh., I'm mostly just covering my own ass from your assassination attempts.Your own contributions to the main subject has thus far been a big fat zero and your readiness to reach for other people's thinking via acamedia papers isn't doing you any favours either.

You appear to think you're the voice of reason but all you're actually voicing is noise.
3Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Darren Adams Managing Director, ChaosTrend5 years ago
Before this gets any more heated, I will say some statements about this that I think are reasonable;

1.Men and women both possess the ability to be innovative in equal measure, neither sex being any more or less innovative than the other. I can't see any evidence that having 50 men and 50 women doing a task will produce more innovation than 100 men or 100 women doing the same task. This I believe is the main reason this comment debate got started.

2.The games industry (as in people who actually work in the games industry) is not a force for pushing gender inequality, quite the opposite and is a very progressive industry with extremely talented and intelligent people. Does this mean there are no sexist individuals in the industry? Of course not, they will be in all walks of life and is very difficult to fix from an industries position. Most of the worst cases of cyber abuse that have links with video games is usually from people that play video games, not the people that make video games.

3.Women and men like different things and in general this is not a bad thing when the people doing it enjoy and want to do it. Having an all-female or all-male workforce is also not a bad thing, sometimes it is good to have environments where there are same sex groups that can work together. Sometimes, pushing for an equally balanced workforce where none existed can be a damaging thing to do.

4.Society does seem to push gender based roles and interests from birth, with the biggest influence being from the parents and their own gender. Should the games industry try to address societies problems by making it easier for specific genders to enter, whilst making it more difficult for the other genders? IMO, absolutely not. This is a dangerous and damaging practice which does nothing to solve the problem, more than it does to create a new problem where one never existed. Encourage for sure, but don't make it a crime to be unbalanced.

To end, I don't think anyone who has been involved in this comment debate is any less right or wrong in their perceptions or conclusions. If someone says something you disagree with and you try to change their mind to align with what you think, I would say you are wasting your time and is not a decision you can make for them anyway.

Only ones self can make that decision and it should be left to them to make of it what they will.

Edited 4 times. Last edit by Darren Adams on 16th October 2015 10:38am

11Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
I didn't actually say anything about Briana (that's actually the first time I've typed her name in this entire diatribe), or her being objective (my comments are more 'I can't get resources that don't exist!!) - you're simply trying to force words against your own objective into my mouth.
Ah man, no... Just no. I'm not.

I was making a general comment against how you were saying that
Neither myself nor any other 'man' on this (over discussed) thread can do anything about the wider view of why more women don't enter the games industry.
When we can. I deeply apologise if you think I was attacking/misquoting/putting-words-into-your-mouth, since that was not my intent.
I've worked for Acclaim, Software Creations, Virtucraft, Runecraft, Jester Interactive, Rage, EA, SEGA and SONY. If I'd ever seen anyone held back because of their gender, I would have gone *nuclear*.
Hence why I said you seemed to be dealing with the issue, because even before this quote, you seemed to be the kind of person who would check other people's biases against gender.
It genuinely amazes me that a bloke like me can come on here and say, 'gender doesn't matter, we have jobs, come and get them'
And yet not everyone thinks like you? This is why it confuses me when people come and say stuff like this repeatedly. We get it: not all industry people are biased. Not all companies can hire women, even if it's simply because the women aren't there. Not all companies are sexist. Yes. We know. But not all people are good people. Not all people check their bias. Not all people care about equality. Because you know what - people aren't perfect. And that's fine. It's just making people aware, and trying to improve the industry (and its perception).
and you are trying to demonise my statements to by suggesting that I'm saying someone can't be objective because she's 'an emotional woman'.
Again, it was a general comment about things men can do. Specifically, though, the "objective" comment was in direct response to these comments:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-10-09-chinese-room-studio-head-leaving-games#comment-101684

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-10-09-chinese-room-studio-head-leaving-games#comment-101767

Again, I'm very sorry if you thought it was an attack on you.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Morville O'Driscoll on 16th October 2015 11:01am

2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Col Rodgers Programmer//Production Manager//Producer//Designer 5 years ago
@Darren Adams: I wish I could like this post more than once.
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Morville O'Driscoll Blogger & Critic 5 years ago
eat some cookies dipped in honey.
I can almost hear my teeth rotting from the sugar, but damn, that does sound nice. :D
1Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Nick McCrea Gentleman, Pocket Starship5 years ago
@ Darren Adams

Before someone else brings it up, there actually is some evidence that 'diverse' teams have some slight performance benefits, but at a slight cost to employee happiness - the proposed mechanism is that diversity forces people out of; 'in-group' comfort zones and raises performance accordingly (through anxiety about being judged less leniently by members of the 'out-group').

I suspect the effect is minor and is effectively noise compared to any of the following - staff experience, staff skill levels, funding, tools, techniques, quality of leadership, morale etc.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd5 years ago
There's a ton of people about with this much experience, but I doubt you will have met any as a crossword publisher.
...
And whilst I'm on a roll, why would at least four people upvote someone for making an obviously uninformed shot in the dark about something he cannot possibly know anything about.
Pot, meet kettle.
4Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
@John: personally I put it more down to cognitive slips. We can all read too much into someone's comment either by way of inferring their worldview and other associated beliefs, or by way of inferring the implications of the statement. Implications are tricky as even if you identify a statement that is implied by someone's prior comment, often the original statement was meant in relation to an unspecified context and results in the feeling that words have been put in one's mouth.

An interesting phenomena occurs when you repeat back someone's words verbatim. Perhaps it is a result of differences in expression, but you can often make someone say, "that's not what I mean," even if you are saying exactly what they said. This is because much of the meaning is conveyed in the tone. When communicating via text we write with a tone in mind, often feeling that the tone will be conveyed by the choice of words and use of smilees or emphasis. However it is read back differently, while at the same time the other person's responses will be read with a tone assigned by your perception of them.

I like to think of it like this, we can make mistakes about what we think someone means, accept the correction and move on.

Take us for instance. I said, "that's not what I'm saying," you said, "cool, let's move on," and guess what? We've moved on and everyone's happy. I think a level of tolerance is much needed in online discussions for at least the few reasons I illustrated above - and I'm sure someone else could have conveyed that in a much more eloquent way, but I hope the message came across well.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 16th October 2015 11:13am

2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Adam Campbell Product Manager, Azoomee5 years ago
@Adam: I'd go for linked in. For anyone interested I am part of a group that hold events in parliament where we invite notable speakers and MP's on various subjects centred around human rights and equality.

We could have a panel discussion on the subject as a whole with panelists representing different industries and points of view. I would imagine it to be a much more productive method. Just this week we were discussing getting political education in parliament.

How does that sound?
Thanks Keldon, I think that would be really interesting.

I know UKIE for one, have sub groups covering various aspects of the industry to discuss key issues and industry-wide solutions. They hold a lot of interesting events too.

The frustrating thing is, the main trade bodies have no individual membership except for students. So membership is expensive unless its funded by a studio.
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
James Berg Games User Researcher 5 years ago
Folks, we're a professional site, let's act the part. Please leave the ad hominem and tit-for-tat at the door. I'm not sure what other moderators are watching this, but I for one would rather not start swinging the moderator-bat when this spins back up tomorrow morning.
2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Rachel Weber Senior Editor, GamesIndustry.biz5 years ago
Just a quick reminder of our house rules. Would hate for you to spend your valuable time writing something I later delete.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-10-20-our-house-rules
5Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Keldon Alleyne Strategic Keyboard Basher, Avasopht Development5 years ago
Just to point out that this is not a liberal-left thing, here is David Cameron speaking about equality. He acknowledges that there are biases, using the example of black sounding names on CVs being less likely to get a callback. Female names incur the same hit (using the same type of study), but I'm just sharing it to point out that the studies are not anti-conservative at all or even politically motivated.

Politicizing debates leads to irrational discussion as people resist evidence that opposes what they consider to be their political stance rather than just looking at the evidence. Now that is not to suggest there are fewer women in games because of bias, it's just a slightly related topic that comes up.
Article: She explained that Giant Spacekat was more interested in what VR could do better than any other technology, and it believed the answer was story. She suggested empathy was the building block currently missing from game development, and VR could offer a way to incorporate that with your motion, your eyes and the tone of your voice.

"That's really the direction that we're going."
So with regards to innovation, given we know that it is strengthened by diverse backgrounds and personalities, is there much need to debate whether innovation could in some way increase? That's not to say that we'll all of a sudden have completely new genres as the innovations might have nothing to do with anything we expect. The innovations could be on communication structures, source control, compiler design, design patterns, tools, game engines and resource management. There's no telling what actual innovations will be stimulated. In fact I think there's a bit of a false expectation that it will only change the types of games and introduce gaming mechanics.

On the topic of female interest in STEM subjects, perhaps our teaching methods are suiting boys more than girls and at the same time our social environment still reinforces gender based career expectations. It's a big subject with lots of question and no straight answers as everything is interwoven. One example someone raised here is with crunch.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Keldon Alleyne on 17th October 2015 12:58pm

2Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply
Tom Keresztes Programmer 5 years ago
On the topic of female interest in STEM subjects, perhaps our teaching methods are suiting boys more than girls and at the same time our social environment still reinforces gender based career expectations.
Neither big tech company was started by a college graduate. Jobs, Gates, etc, etc, Considering that the educational sytem is dominated by women... (In the UK 87% of the teachers are female - http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.PRM.TCHR.FE.ZS) maybe the games industry is not the only one area that needs better gender balance.
0Sign inorRegisterto rate and reply

Sign in to contribute

Need an account? Register now.