Warren Spector on E3: VR is a fad

The veteran designer shares his thoughts on what's right and what's wrong with the industry

E3 2015 was jam-packed with new games, new technologies, and plenty of the same old showmanship as companies labored to convince everyone that the new products coming out this year are bigger and better than ever. But how does this compare to previous E3 shows, and how do these new products compare to the products of past years? Someone with a long history in the game industry is the ideal person to assess this, which is why running into industry veteran Warren Spector at E3 was such a fortuitous occurrence. He graciously agreed to answer some questions about E3 and the industry, from his perspective as a game designer, producer, executive and now program director of the Denius-Sams Gaming Academy at the University of Texas at Austin.

Q: What was your overall impression of this year's show compared to the past?

Warren Spector:I think I've been to every E3 show since the first one. The biggest change I've observed over the years is the shift from a retail show to media event. Back in the day, E3 was all about getting stores and chains to order your game. Today, E3 seems much more focused on generating buzz and drumming up interest in individual games, overall product lines and killer hardware.

The big thing I took away from this year's show was that the major publishers and hardware console manufacturers aren't dead yet. So many people have been ringing the death knell of consoles, but there still seems to be plenty of activity and enthusiasm in that sector. I'm not sure if that's because consoles are still as relevant as they ever were or because the big companies are really good at giving that impression. I mean, it could all be smoke and mirrors. Hard to say. But consoles looked pretty vibrant at E3 this year.

Q: What was your impression of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, both compared to each other and compared to previous years? Did anything stand out, either positive or negative, for you?

"I see amazing possibilities in VR for social media and virtual meetings and training and crazy stuff like dealing with phobias. But for entertainment? I'm just not seeing it"

Warren Spector:I didn't make it to any of the press events this year. I did follow some of the coverage and the overwhelming impression I got was that there are sure a lot of games coming up with numbers after their names. I get why that is, but I don't have to be happy about it. At least there were a few new IP games. Take what you can get I suppose. I was also struck by how games all seem to look alike these days (well, except for Nintendo games, which all look like Nintendo games...). Okay, maybe it's always been like that and I'm just getting more crotchety as time goes on.

Sony seemed like they were showing the most new IP, which was great, but I still find it weird that they seem committed to "owning the living room." I mean, I already have too many boxes that do basically what Sony Vue does. Why would I want another one?

Honestly, though, I always find the big press events a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Never understood all the whooping and hollering that goes on when publishers show off their seemingly identical trailers. (Did I just ensure that I'll never work again?...)

Q: How does it feel to see the Deus Ex franchise continuing?

Warren Spector:I feel great about the franchise continuing. It could have been a disaster, I suppose, but the team at Eidos Montreal really seems to get what made the original game work and they're doing a nice job with it - they've only made three or four design decisions I wouldn't have made! I really enjoyed playing Human Revolution - it felt (and equally important, sounded) like a Deus EX game. I had the Deus Ex experience and, for a change, I didn't know all the secrets. That was pretty cool. I'm really looking forward to Mankind Divided.

Q: As usual, there were many new games being shown, but the majority seemed to be sequels or remakes or brand extensions. What's the status of innovation in the console space, to your mind? Are the new consoles giving us anything besides prettier pictures?

Warren Spector:Well, it's not like sequels, remakes and brand extensions are a new thing. And I've been complaining about "the same old games with prettier pictures" for a while now. Really, we've been in that world for years now. Innovation has always been a tough sell.

For sure, there are some games that look like they're going after something new - No Man's Sky comes to mind - but when I look for new and different gameplay, I start with the indies, not the triple-A folks. Indiecade was pretty rockin' this year. Some really interesting stuff there. It was nice to see Microsoft and Sony showing their commitment to indie games. That gives me hope.

Q: It seemed like VR and AR were getting a lot more attention this year. Did you experience any of it at the show? Is this really the Next Big Thing in gaming technology, or is it destined to be a niche for the hardest of the hardcore?

Warren Spector:I've been pretty consistent in my belief that VR is a fad. I think it'll generate some interest among the hardcore gamers. And I see amazing possibilities in VR for social media and virtual meetings and training and crazy stuff like dealing with phobias. But for entertainment? I'm just not seeing it. I don't think most humans want to look stupid (everyone looks stupid in a VR headset) and they don't want to isolate themselves from the world. I mean, if someone's sneaking up behind me with a baseball bat, I want to know about it, you know what I mean? And let's not talk about nausea.

It's weird, I worked on a couple of games that supported available VR headsets back in the '90s and I was really jazzed about it. Now, I'm kind of over it.

AR, on the other hand - that seems pretty exciting. There's some potential there. Even the low-hanging fruit of AR gaming seems compelling. Bring on the AR.

Q: What was the most interesting game you saw at the show, and why was it interesting to you?

Warren Spector:Can I say Deus Ex: Mankind Divided without seeming too self-serving? Okay, I'll drop that.

The game that really got my shorts in a knot was Cuphead. It may just be that I'm a total classic animation geek, but that game looked phenomenal. I'm not usually a graphics first guy, but I'll make an exception for that one. Can't wait to play it.


'30s era cartoon-based Cuphead

I was also taken with Wattam over in the Indiecade booth - unique, filled with childlike wonder, a real sense of discovery... Just a nice piece of work from Funomena and Katamari Damacy designer, Keita Takahashi.

I was intrigued by Nintendo's Mario Maker. It seems so out of character for Nintendo to let loose their death grip on the quality associated with their IP. And to involve their audience so much? That's nicely out of character. Mostly, I'm excited for Nintendo fans to learn how freakin' hard it is to create compelling gameplay!

Having said all that, I really wanted to see The Last Guardian and No Man's Sky, but that just wasn't in the cards for me. I suspect they would have impressed, too.

Q: Was there anything that really surprised you at E3? Anything that really disappointed you? Anything that left you filled with hope?

Warren Spector:I was surprised to see so little mobile stuff. I guess E3 really isn't that kind of show, but with all the talk about the demise of consoles and the rise of mobile, I expected more.

As far as disappointments go, I've already talked about the sequels. I worked really hard to avoid games that had a 4, 5 or 14 after their names.

Hope? Sure. Again, indie games seem to be thriving, even in the world of traditional consoles. Just check out games like Tribal and Error or Chambara and you can see that there are still new design ideas to explore.

Q: You've completed the first year of the Denius-Sams Gaming Academy. What was that experience like for you, and what have the graduates told you about their experience with the program?

Warren Spector:The experience of building a game development program from scratch was pretty amazing and I'm really grateful to The University of Texas for giving me that opportunity. After I left Disney, after 31 years of making games, I wanted a bit of a hiatus. I was looking for some different challenges and man did I get them! Finding the program's focus (leadership and management in game development), hiring a terrific staff of industry professionals, building the curriculum, planning a year's worth of lectures, figuring out how academic institutions get things done - lots of work, lots to learn.

Once the students showed up, things got really exciting. We found a great group. We had some students who'd been running their own indie studios, some folks who'd come right out of the mainstream industry, a bunch of game dev graduates, both undergraduate and graduate... The diversity and varied personalities made it feel like the most extreme version of building a game team.

At the end of the day, I think we were able to expose the students to the realities of game development. We were able to help many of them get jobs at places like Telltale, Turbine, Gearbox, 2K and elsewhere. I think it's safe to say they all left with an appreciation for how difficult development can be, how challenging it can be to lead a team creatively, how important it is to be a great team member and how tough it can be to manage the process that results in a shipped game. I hope we gave them some tools to deal with all those difficulties and challenges.

Best of all, several of the DSGA participants clearly left the program changed as people.The skills of leadership and management are transferable to all aspects of life and several of our students came to realize that.

Q: You're now in the process of accepting applications for the second year of the Denius-Sams Academy. What are you looking for in your applicants, and what should they expect to get out of the program if they are accepted?

Warren Spector:What we look for in applicants is experience making games - you have to have been part of a game team, whether in an educational setting or a professional one. We don't teach programming or design or art creation - we teach leadership, so we expect people to come in already knowing the basics of development and with some expertise in their individual discipline.

"The thing I'll be paying attention to is the evolution of business models. It almost seems like no one knows how to make money anymore. A little scary"

Obviously, we look for people who aspire to leadership positions - production, creative direction, lead design, lead programmer, art director... And applicants have to convince us they have the potential to lead.

All 20 students work on one game for 9 months and everyone gets a chance to lead the team so people leave the program with hands-on experience producing or directing a relatively large-scale game with a relatively long development cycle - opportunities they might not get for years in the real world.

More specifically, we teach people how to conceptualize projects, how to create and maintain a creative vision, how to balance creative and business needs, how to deal with the inevitable conflicts that arise during development, how to work with people from different disciplines and with people whose communication style differs from your own, We talk about finding the right team structure for your people and your project and what it means to work in different development methodologies.. We talk about budgeting, scheduling, pitching techniques and more. We cover a lot of ground - ground that most other game development programs don't cover.

To be clear, we don't expect anyone to leave the DSGA and get a job as creative director on the next Deus Ex game right out of the gate, but we believe we can provide some career acceleration so they get there sooner than they might have otherwise.

Oh, and did I mention there's no tuition? The DSGA is free. And we give each student a $10,000 stipend, too. Yeah, I know - crazy, right?

Q: What trends in gaming will you be keeping your eye on over the next year?

Warren Spector:The thing I'll be paying attention to is the evolution of business models. It almost seems like no one knows how to make money anymore. A little scary. Personally, I'm going to be working on figuring out mobile and games as a service. I know way too little about that world and when I get back in the game, I need to be prepared for a brave new world.

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Latest comments (25)

Darren Adams Managing Director, ChaosTrend7 years ago
As much as I would like to disagree with WS on this because I love the 'idea' of VR. You would have to say that until the units are cheap to buy and produce, are little more than a pair of glasses size-wise and have hundreds of games/apps that work between platform. Then I suppose you could reasonably say that VR is a Fad and be mostly correct.

We are still a little early IMO and maybe it won't be this iteration, or the next. But I do want to believe VR will be a mainstream gaming platform at some point.
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Jakub Mikyska CEO, Grip Digital7 years ago
I was lucky enough to get hold of Warren just as he was exiting the Cuphead demo station and got a photo with him and he then asked to play the game we were showing there. You hear me? WARREN SPECTOR PLAYED A GAME THAT WE ARE WORKING ON in front of my own eyes! My life is now complete :-) He then asked for a bit of our Purell gel. Not sure if it was because of the controller, or the game! ;-)
OK, enough with the school-girl screaming. I am really glad for the experience of shaking hands with this legend. What a nice guy!

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Jakub Mikyska on 23rd June 2015 4:44pm

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John Cook Senior Partner, Bad Management7 years ago
More or less - this! :-)
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Show all comments (25)
Reilly Davis7 years ago
not entertainment? id love to play as the main character of a game and literally kick butt, but why is there segregation between AR and VR?? they should be used in conjunction with one another. i would love a game where you had to go out and find an object, then put your vr on and bam you are in another level. theres so much that could be done with these technologies i do agree they are still clunky but they are a lot better then when i first saw them in beyond 2000.
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Aaron Brown BA Computer Science Student, Carnegie Mellon University7 years ago
@Darren Addams

VR won't ever be a mainstream video game platform because there are too many issues that can occur relative to each individual user, as mentioned in the article. But it will nonetheless be an innovative platform and piece of technology that will be profitable to develop for in certain niche situations.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Aaron Brown on 23rd June 2015 6:23pm

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Aaron Brown BA Computer Science Student, Carnegie Mellon University7 years ago
@Barry Tingle

I think you're wrong for generalizing the same future outlook for AR as VR.
AR is far more applicable to a wider array of experiences. Nintendo convinced a significant amount of people that they needed to have the wii, wiimote, and sensor bar, though many games on the platform lacked motion control support. AR has the potential to do something similar. VR does not.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Aaron Brown on 25th June 2015 4:52pm

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I don't think most humans want to look stupid (everyone looks stupid in a VR headset) and they don't want to isolate themselves from the world. I mean, if someone's sneaking up behind me with a baseball bat, I want to know about it, you know what I mean?

see this I dont get, this whole, you dont look cool doing it. Do you think any gamer looks cool while gaming now? Please playing games is and has always been dorky looking but who cares. Have you seen the average person? you really think how they look while sitting in their living room or game room matters to them?
Next , this isolation thing makes little sense either, so VR immerses you, isnt that the goal of every game, to immerse the player. Plus players are not going to immersed and alone, VR is going to open up all new worlds for people to interact together. VR is not about isolation.
It just baffles me to see some of these older creators being passed by , by new tech. VR and AR are the future, it couldnt be more obvious, but then again in the 40's Im sure there were people who thought TV would never replace radio.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Todd Weidner on 23rd June 2015 7:03pm

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Julian Williams Founder, WIZDISH Ltd.7 years ago
People definitely claimed they didn't want colour TV and photography and that they were happy with black & white.
I'm pretty sure even Apple were shocked by the success of the app store. With so much energy going into VR some of it is going to stick. It'll probably be more down to the content people dream up than the hardware but the right tools will help considerably.
BTW I liked this concept:
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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.7 years ago
Julian, can you show me any proof that people in any sizable quantity stated they don't want color TV and photographs? That sounds like some made up malarkey just to make whatever new concept sound like the next big thing.
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Farhang Namdar Lead Game Designer Larian Studios 7 years ago
Why all the hate for VR!? Cutting edge tech leads to other cutting edge tech. You should all be endorsing AR and VR to help drive your industry forward! There is more than enough potential for simulators (Gran Turismo, Forza, Moto GP, F1, World of Tanks etc.) and then all the shooters. That's like 40% of the industry (the real industry not mobile games :P)? The first guys will have to pave the way and the rest will follow, just support them in their first steps. In time Warren will look cool in his living room as he plays Deus EX 14 with his ultra compact VR headset.
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Greg Wilcox Creator, Destroy All Fanboys! 7 years ago
Warren will look cool in his living room as he plays Deus EX 14 with his ultra compact VR headset.
Deus Ex 14? We'll all be verrrrrrrry old by the time that happens, I'd bet. I hope someone is making VR bifocals by then :D
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Al Nelson Producer, Tripwire Interactive7 years ago
Of all the stuff he says, the headline is VR. Hmm.
Well, it is easy to feel that way after living through multiple cycles of the "VR is the next big thing" craze- from polarizers, shutters and glasses, goggles and helmets to Sony's recent 3D TV oops.
It may yet become a (commercial) thing, but not with headaches, stiff necks and nausea.
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Julian Williams Founder, WIZDISH Ltd.7 years ago
@Jim. Just personal experience, that's all. It happened again with mobile phones and the internet. A lot of it is jealousy when people fear they won't be able to afford stuff. Confidence plays a key role in technology adoption. Good ideas aren't guaranteed to succeed without support but I'm inclined to think VR may be getting there. It only feels mildly ambitious compared to moon landings, video recorders, smartphones and all the other stuff I've witnessed happen.
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Paul Jace Merchandiser 7 years ago
VR has been an on-again off-again fad for the past 20+ years.
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 7 years ago
@Paul Jace
VR has been an on-again off-again fad for the past 20+ years.
I wouldn't say this is actually the case. It was a fad once, and it failed miserably because it was way way before it's time.
Just like when Microsoft made tablets a very long time ago and it did not do well. Again, because it was before it's time. Before technology could do it at a reasonable level.

This isn't to say VR headsets where not made after the first time, of course they where. But it wasn't made to be a main stream type of thing, like it was the first time.

There is a very large fundamental difference comparing all past attempts to what we have today. You just can't do it. They failed at VR the first time, simply because what they made was not VR. It was a screen in front of your face. That's all. Todays VR is much more than that. It's actually an experience that at least makes you feel like you are in the world of the game. No past VR has done that, which is the point of VR to begin with.

While today's tech may not be the future, today's tech will certainly pave the way for it.

Also .. there have been many people who talk about not looking cool while playing VR. I think that is a joke of an excuse.
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Jim Webb Executive Editor/Community Director, E-mpire Ltd. Co.7 years ago
Julian, certainly there are instances of new technology being rejected by the masses before they eventually took hold but I assure color TV and photographs were neither part of that nor do I suspect you are old enough to have experienced them given color TV itself was introduced in the late 1940s.

And I understand that you guys have a vested interest in VR with the ROVR project (yes, I saw your PR a few days ago) so I don't blame you for pushing it hard. But I also think your own project aligns with what Warren is stating. That it holds more promise in fields other than gaming.
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Marty Howe Director, Figurehead Studios7 years ago
the definition of a Fad, is something that's popular for a while, then disappears. VR will evolve, get cheaper, better software etc. It will probably become the norm, and we will reflect on how silly we were, when we used to use monitors.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Marty Howe on 24th June 2015 5:12am

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Julian Williams Founder, WIZDISH Ltd.7 years ago
Jim, ok not that old but as a beeb engineer I was always amazed when someone still used B&W and would ask them why.
You are right about non gaming but it's seeing it used in other fields that makes me think it will work with the right games (any where you stand and move). I think Marty sums it up well but can forgive WS for being flippant when some just keep saying 'how great it's all gonna be'. As a long time engineer I see all tech as being interim. i.e. if the car or phone I just bought is better than my last one should I have waited? I'd love to know how much in real terms the fairly standard 800 paid for VHS machines in the 80's would be today :)

As the ever sensible David Braben says here "VR is one of the futures of gaming"

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Julian Williams on 24th June 2015 9:59am

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Paul Shirley Programmers 7 years ago
@Brook Davidson "They failed at VR the first time, simply because what they made was not VR. It was a screen in front of your face."

The first gaming VR failed largely because it was far too expensive even as site based entertainment (and that's not directly what killed the company), it had all the features of real VR but hardware just wasn't able to do it well enough for great results. The same tech carried on for business users where price wasn't a problem.

What really happened is we've had a 20 year break waiting for the hardware to get good and cheap enough to do it right, at a price players could afford. Along the way a lot of fake VR kit did indeed get thrown at the market and deservedly failed.

We're still a few years away from breaking the price barrier for mass adoption. What's more depressing is the last prototype VR headset I tried in the 90's (which sadly died with the company) was smaller, lighter and less clumsy than today's efforts - but 5k or so more expensive.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Paul Shirley on 24th June 2015 1:32pm

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Anthony Chan7 years ago
While WS' words are a bit off-base, I do understand his sentiment. Maybe I am the one sitting in a corner here, but I too believe VR in it's current stage is just a fad. @Todd, I agree technology will always progress, and there are many examples of things we didn't believe consumers would accept (i.e. more recent than radio vs TV, the size of phone screens - it wasn't cool carrying a phone bigger than your pocket - now tell me who doesn't have a phone with a screen >5").

I think VR's uptake will be dependant on the comfort of the player rather than how "uncool" they look or feel. People mentioned the games VR would be perfect for include shooters and racers. I would even add MMORPGs to that mix. The idea is most definitely very cool. Given the cost of the hardware though, one would have to assess whether they play enough to warrant dropping the big dollars. So who would be dying to get one of these puppies? The hardcore gamers who spend countless hours in game per day - or the filthy rich. For the hardcore gamer, stamina & comfort is paramount. The current VR sets are far from comfortable. I would not be up to playing 6 hours straight of WoW in a VR set (no matter how immersed I am) with the current hardware.

So as it stands, VR with its current hardware specs, I believe is just a fad - or could be seen a stepping stone in the right direction. However, if hardware does not drastically improve to accommodate player comfort, I don't see it selling like hot cakes in the short-term.

And since some of us are dreaming, personally I am waiting for the Holodeck to come out. Play alone, or play together with somebody (or grab a party for that matter for you RPG players) beside you. This is the perfect balance between REAL human social interaction and complete immersion - the sweetest deal.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Anthony Chan on 24th June 2015 5:32pm

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Julian Williams Founder, WIZDISH Ltd.7 years ago
@Anthony. Player comfort, including ocular-vestibular disparity causing nausea, is far more important than looks as you say.
I suspect you are also right about cost but that's where things like Google Cardboard and Wearality come in. Newer phones will probably get better tracking as a result of this 'fad' and that provides a lower entry level.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Julian Williams on 25th June 2015 12:38pm

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Aaron Brown BA Computer Science Student, Carnegie Mellon University7 years ago
@Barrie Tingle

But AR is far less disorienting than VR. The Microsoft Hololens ad really demonstrates the wide array of ways AR could be useful outside of just gaming.

I am sure you have seen this, but I am including it as a reference.

If you ask me, this diverse set of potential use cases indicates a mainstream, not niche, future for AR.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Aaron Brown on 25th June 2015 7:20pm

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Thought I ought to update my blog and explain in a little more depth what I think about when I think about VR.
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Julian Williams Founder, WIZDISH Ltd.6 years ago
Thanks for offering to debate this rationally Warren. Many of us VR enthusiasts are fed up with the hype too. To answer some of your points:
Once a technology becomes fit for purpose we tend to forget all the essential failures that pathed the way (as well as deny foreign contributions). Remember that the first TV system was mechanical and there were many attempts at flying before the Wright brothers.
Space sims came and went in the past and are now showing early promise for VR. They could thus be considered a fad but they also laid the groundwork for more sophisticated games. There is a limit to the range of stories you can tell when tied to a cockpit.
The two things you most want to do in VR are use your hands to manipulate and legs to navigate. Most people involuntarily take a step forward the first time they try an HMD and find that nothing happens. I've always felt that VR will go nowhere without locomotion and will declare my self-interest here (see our website and YouTube).
We've found that non-gamers enjoy VR even more that hardcore gamers. Middle aged women seem particularly impressed, possibly because they see games as something their sons do and reject the abstract gamepad as an interface. Standing freely and moving your legs is a totally intuitive way to navigate a 3D world. One of the key causes of nausea, ocular-vestibular discrepancy, is also solved.
In 2008 Logitech announced that they had already sold a billion mice - that's quite a good peripheral business (that also relates to navigation). This notion that VR is antisocial is simply uninformed. It'll allow you to interact with far-flung family and friends as if they were next to you. I don't personally buy this idea that one person will wear an HMD and everyone else will look at the telly. The shared experience comes from everyone wearing them. As for what you look like, the whole point of fashion is that it keeps changing.
No one predicted that business would be the killer app for computers and computer gaming came off the back of that. Our job is to create the tools and push the boundaries. The reaction we've had from way over 10,000 people trying the ROVR (with Rift) is too good to give up and walk away. A major bank in the USA is currently using it for events and the feedback is quote "awesome, great fun, amazing, wonderful, super-fun, etc."
What's wrong with that?
btw I think your obsession with VR therapy is totally justified. Just love the medical applications of all this.
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Justin Biddle Software Developer 6 years ago
My biggest problem with VR which I've said before is that as a gamer I am lazy. I like to lie on the sofa and move as little as possible. When I first got a Wii years ago I spent the first month enjoying making big, extravagant and energetic gestures. About a month later I realised to my delight I could just make a tiny flick of the controller while lying down and achieve the same result.

I'm pretty certain (gut feeling, no actual evidence to prove this) that the majority of gamers are the same. Sure for a month I will enjoy standing in the middle of my living room turning this way and that soaking it all in. But after that month I'm just going to want to lie flat on the sofa staring in one direction and limiting all my movement to the gamepad. At which point to me 50% of the point of VR has been lost.

And also how comfortable will that helmet be the moment I'm trying to rest my head against the back of a chair or the arm of a sofa. 3D specs are annoying enough to wear

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Justin Biddle on 29th June 2015 11:27am

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