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Intel: "We are deeply sorry if we offended anyone"

Chip maker issues statement in wake of pulling ads from website Gamasutra

Last week there was another uproar in the #GamerGate debate when Intel pulled its advertising support from developer website Gamasutra, following a string of complaints from #GamerGate supporters about an editorial that Gamasutra had published. A number of people perceived the action by Intel to mean that the company had taken a side and that it doesn't support equality in video games - in fact, some developers urged others to write to Intel about it - but now Intel has issued a statement on the whole situation, proclaiming that diversity is critically important to the company.

While Intel does not appear to be reinstating any ads on Gamasutra, the company did apologize for offending anyone. "We take feedback from customers seriously. For the time being, Intel has decided not to continue with our current ad campaign on the gaming site Gamasutra. However, we recognize that our action inadvertently created a perception that we are somehow taking sides in an increasingly bitter debate in the gaming community. That was not our intent, and that is not the case," the company said.

"When it comes to our support of equality and women, we want to be very clear: Intel believes men and women should be treated the same. And, diversity is an integral part of our corporate strategy and vision with commitments to improve the diversity of our workforce. And while we respect the right of individuals to have their personal beliefs and values, Intel does not support any organization or movement that discriminates against women. We apologize and we are deeply sorry if we offended anyone."

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Latest comments (73)

Pete Fairhurst Interaction Designer 4 years ago
Usual bullshit corporate non-apology.

"We're only sorry if we actually offended anyone. Otherwise we regret nothing."

If you were genuinely sorry, Intel, you'd simply have reversed this decision and carried on business as usual.
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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
Its much safer to hold back and wait and see what happens until the situation is clarified. Intel is not a company known for rushed decisions, and those "gamers" are their customers, not Gamasutra.
Besides, they said they are not taking sides. Intel actively encourages women to get into STEM, doing far more than just making vain announcements for PR purposes.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Tom Keresztes on 6th October 2014 4:25pm

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Nick McCrea Gentleman, Pocket Starship4 years ago
GamerGate is like global thermonuclear war. The only way to win is not to play.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Nick McCrea on 6th October 2014 4:38pm

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Show all comments (73)
Alex V EIC, NGN4 years ago
I agree with Tom. Intel is just taking a step back to remove itself from the conflict, there is nothing wrong with that.

It's sad they were made to apologize for running a business the way they want to.
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It's sad that anyone thinks 'I'm sorry but I'm not going to actually do anything about it' counts as an apology. Empty words and a lame attempt to distance themselves from the mailbombing campaign they fell victim to.
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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
Empty words and a lame attempt to distance themselves from the mailbombing campaign they fell victim to.
What did you expect them to do? Its a company doing business. Their customers were obviously unhappy with their ad placement.
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I expected them to actually apologise, acknowledge the damage their mistake has made and denounce the mailbombing harassment campaign that sparked their initial reaction.
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Jordan Lund Columnist 4 years ago
Everyone involved in #gamergate at this point seems to me to be certifiably insane. The only good reaction is to simply ignore them.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Jordan Lund on 6th October 2014 5:28pm

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Andrzej Wroblewski Localization Generalist, Albion Localisations4 years ago
There's so much intolerance in tolerance these days...
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Klaus Preisinger Freelance Writing 4 years ago
Writing a statement in which you declare to pull an ad campaign in response to customer feedback being taken seriously, is the opposite of not taking sides.

I am also very confused about Intel's equality of women. For men and women to be equal, neither men can remain men, nor women can remain women. If you merely treated women like men and men still like men, you would end up with non-equal treatment, because only one gender would be forced to be treated as if it was the other. Mathematical Logic 101. So Intel, if men and women are treated the same in your company, then how can there be diversity? The very nature of diversity requires things not to be the same.
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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
I expected them to actually apologise, acknowledge the damage their mistake has made and denounce the mailbombing harassment campaign that sparked their initial reaction.
I personally found Leigh Alexander's opinion piece an attack on gamers in general, but nothing special. However one can have an opinion in a blog, but when she published her own opinion in the news section, then she was sending the message that its representative of her company. And Intel is not a gaming company, its a electronics giant. They will care more about their customers reaction that an article on a portal. She was specific about gamers, and did not make it clear enough that this was actually a reaction for certain cases (first section, where she says i want to be this, this, this are actual links)
Gamers are here to stay. Just as viewers for TV, readers for the press. Its the audience. Without audience, the games industry would not exist.

If any havent actually read the article :
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

If she apologises, then i will support your call for Intel to apologise. Until that happens, i am ok with Intel's decision. Their scholarships done far more for women than this article.
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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
Intel have nothing apologise for, gamasutra on the other hand, personally, I think they do.
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Charles Herold Wii Games Guide, about.com4 years ago
Apologize for what? I read the piece, and I really don't understand why it made the world blow up. Someone explain to me what she said that is so awful that it generated a whole campaign against her.
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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
I don't think the author needs to apologise, she is entitled to her opinion but gamasutra itself for not providing a balanced opposing view. The whole branding of "gamer" as dirty word is something I personally find deeply offensive
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
Intel did nothing wrong in my eyes. I felt the article that was written was terrible. It judged an entire community based on some bad apples. That is discrimination. It irritates me even more when the whole point is about equality yet they are doing the same thing just in a different manner. If you have to discriminate against all gamers, then you are just as bad as any sexist person.
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If you have to discriminate against all gamers, then you are just as bad as any sexist person.
Today I learned that someone's leisuretime hobby is as fundamental part of them as their gender.

Oh wait, no that's not true at all
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Anthony Gowland Director, Ant Workshop4 years ago
Their customers were obviously unhappy with their ad placement.
I wonder what percentage of Intel's income comes from people who have even heard of GamerGate, let alone care enough to choose not to buy from them because of an opinion piece on a website.

I'm guessing a tiny fraction of a percent.
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
Today I learned that someone's leisuretime hobby is as fundamental part of them as their gender.

Oh wait, no that's not true at all
Discrimination is discrimination .. it doesn't matter what it's for. Being transgender myself, I hate being discriminated against, but I also don't like being discriminated against because I am a gamer as well. Me being a gamer has nothing to do with who I am as a person, just like my gender identity has nothing to do with who I am as a person. it doesn't define me.

If you think discrimination is ok in any sense, you are a terrible person. I don't care if it's for gender, race, hair color, hobby, looks, orientation .. it's all bad. If you discriminate against one of these things, and fight against another .. you are a terrible person and a hypocrite.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Brook Davidson on 6th October 2014 8:58pm

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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
I went to church in my leisure time it would be called religion, so yes persecuting anybody for what they do in their spare time is an attack on their identity
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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
I wonder what percentage of Intel's income comes from people who have even heard of GamerGate, let alone care enough to choose not to buy from them because of an opinion piece on a website.

I'm guessing a tiny fraction of a percent
Its more about the reputation. Or it is quite possible that they already decided to pull back their ads a long time ago.
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Tanya Rei Myoko Programmer 4 years ago
I find it weird that anyone is defending Leighs article by pretending it had anything to do with equality. If equality means insulting male gamers, then I want no part of equality. This had nothing to do with anti-feminist bullying like so many sites are claiming and everything with anti bullying from someone claiming to be a feminist (her tweets about mothers say otherwise) the gamers replied politely and peacefully this time and should be commended for it. Gamasutra and everyone else owes them an apology
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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
I can't even fathom how anyone can even remotely describe her article as insulting male gamers.

There is such a massive culture divide that I am just baffled by the fact there is even controversy. The internet has just been a parallel universe for me lately where normal logic just does not apply.

Nor am I able to comprehend how someone can be upset about what someone says when they are doing so in there own space. If the government starts to address video games in a way which could lend itself to regulating the industry then I weakly support getting upset. Maybe if a lawyer (who was always destined to fail) attempted to outlaw video games I would weakly support some emotion, but probably not. But an academic? or blogger? Writing an article that has no relevance to anyone else besides another heaping of generic discourse? No, I don't support a backlash.

Do you know how many academic papers in video game have views the vast majority of gamers would not support? *Most of them*. The same goes for film publications and the average film buff. This type of harmless discourse is so beyond non controversial in every conceivable way that I just can't relate to any level of outrage or the people who support the outrage. Unless the government is attempting to step in and regulate something, it is an overreaction. As goes for any hate towards Phil Fish or any other ridiculous outrage cloud mustered from group think.

Edited 4 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 7th October 2014 6:35am

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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
Christian I said I read the article. I still am at a complete loss to what the fuss is about. Especially your quotes.
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Helen Merete Simm Senior UI Artist, Ubisoft Reflections4 years ago
Her article seems to have been written more as a rant than an actual article.

It angers me when people (of either gender) seem to delight in provoking the exact issues we are trying to overcome. I'm a feminist, in every way, but make no mistake, I was a lonely basement teen too.
It really doesn't help to draw MORE lines in the sand, and rile up genders MORE against each other, when all I want to do is make sure people have the equal opportunities.

@John Owens: Leigh writing for Gamasutra isn't at all like a male chauvinist running Mumsnet, because Gamasutra isn't for men. Its for gamers. Women ARE GAMERS too.
Mumsnet is for...well mums. Maybe some men identify themselves as mums, but your point (although understood) was made in a rather divisive way.
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Anthony Gowland Director, Ant Workshop4 years ago
Gamasutra is for game makers. "The art and business of making games". It's not meant to be a consumer site.
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Eyal Teler Programmer 4 years ago
True, Anthony, Gamasutra shouldn't have posted an article that has so little to do with game development.
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I'm impressed by how many people don't seem to understand the concept of cultural versus personal criticism. Leigh's article was a celebration of the fact that the industry is slowly realising that the negative popular concept of the 'gamer'(which is the bit that everyone is getting upset about, where she lays out how 'gamers' are percieved by mainstream culture) is not the sum total of our audience.

She is literally saying that the unpleasant 'gamer' of her piece is not representative of most people who play games these days and that those people who do not fill that negative stereotype have historically been poorly served by marketers and developers both. But that is changing these days. More and more people are playing games, more and more people realise that 'gamer' is a term still haunted by a lot of negative and largely untrue connotations and that we don't need to cling to those ideas.

Interpreting her work as an 'attack' on you is reading the exact opposite of what the article was about. Responding to that misinterpretation with the incredible amounts of hate, vitriol and attempts to destroy her career(which, as she was observing on Twitter last night, have accomplished exactly the opposite, so: well done!) - now, that is living up to the negative stereotype she was claiming is behind us.

Again: well done, y'all.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Jessica Hyland on 7th October 2014 10:57am

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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
The whole branding of "gamer" as dirty word is something I personally find deeply offensive.
There is a great piece (annoyingly can't find a link right now) which makes it clearer that Leigh's article wasn't a generalised attack on "gamers", more that it was pointing out that the old fashioned marketing stereotype of a "gamer" doesn't have much bearing on reality any more.

I do agree with some later comments that she occassionally oversteps the mark into antagonism, but last time I checked this wasn't a journalistic crime. Tabloid newspapers print things a thousand times worse from the pens of rabble rousing columnists every day.

Obviously Gamasutra don't have anything to apologise for. This whole episode has at least made it impossible for anyone with an ounce of common sense to argue that the angry mob cares about journalistic ethics - expecting advertiser pressure to influence editorial is the polar opposite of ethical journalism.
Their customers were obviously unhappy with their ad placement.
In the same way that thousands of evangelical Christians who write letters condemning TV shows have definitely watched those shows? There is a reason that advertising standards bodies don't pay any attention to the volume of complaints received on a single topic.
I can't even fathom how anyone can even remotely describe her article as insulting male gamers.
I wouldn't worry, it's only sockpuppet accounts and incorrigible imbeciles who are still stirring this pot.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Robin Clarke on 7th October 2014 11:08am

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If that journalist was attacking the tired, sexist marketing stereotype of teenage Twilight readers then I would absolutely agree with him. It's a bad stereotype, it doesn't apply to most or even many people the books appeal to, and if publishers are still marketing books to a demographic with an image like that, they're out of touch.

Feel free to continue misinterpreting Leigh's piece cause you made your mind up about the contents as soon as you saw the headline and the author; I'm done here. Got work to do.
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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
Lets just look at the title...
'Gamers' don't have to be your audience.
now if she'd said
'Blacks' don't have to be your audience.
She'd be racist
if she said
'Gays' don't have to be your audience.
She'd be homophobic
if she said
'Women' don't have to be your audience.
She'd be sexist

To me when she is using the term "Gamer" she is using it to describe "White Heterosexual Males"
Saying
"White Heterosexual Males" don't have to be your audience
Certainly sounds to me like it's slightly prejudice.

By couching this prejudice in the term "gamer" trying to tarnish it, it sucks up so many more people, it's disgusting, it's like telling Muslims you can't call yourselves Muslim anymore because some Muslims are terrorists, it's grossly wrong on so many levels.

Personally I feel she has the right to those opinions, but the outrage at them is completely understandable, as I share it.

Not all Gamers are part of Gamergate, and not all Gamergate supporters are harassers.

I'm a gamer and I'm proud to be one, its one of the most important positive influences on my life, from University to my Career and my future ambitions, all have been massively impacted from my life as a gamer
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Pete Leonard , Amiqus4 years ago
@Helen Merete Simm - perfect summary I feel, and the best way for anyone to approach this. Although I do read Mumsnet.........................little lad seems VERY fussy these days and the wife isn't talking to me:)

One of the most challenging aspects of #Gamersgate is that both sides are far too emotionally invested to the point where rational and balanced discusion (on both sides!!) is being productive.

Having read the article myself I too found it to be more venting than reporting in nature - although I didn't get nearly as annoyed as some and I'm very much a gamer at heart and choose to maintain the gamer brand for myself (I don't see why either side has to let the derogatory few drag the term into perpetually negative association).

One problem with all this is that in many ways, games did naturally appeal to a common demoninator which was largely dominated by man - not on purpose - but as a side effect. that's not to say a male won't play a game that the average female is more likely to play or vice versa. Just an observation.
Ergo the industry was, and still is, majority male - and that does influence (again unconsciously and certainly NOT purposefully) anything from project type to cultural attitudes.

This, all of this (I mena before Gamersgate even) started with the suggestion that there would and could be innovative ways to broaden the scope of the type of people (gender or otherwise) that both played and made games.
And that's no bad thing, but over time, regardless of whether this was forum posts, blogs, Anita's videos (and the horrendous responses from a select vitriolic segment of the 'gamer' demographic - debatable that it's more likely trolls and keyboard warriors) or intel's response, this has now become a war. And no real change will happen in these conditions.

I have far more passionate views on both sides of this argument because it's really not clear cut in my view but I fell talking about them now just fans flames. Harrassment in general is outright wrong, genuinely traumatising and rightfully criminal, but the broad brush tarring of gamers as less inclusive individuals who are not capable of nuturing or engaging in a diverse culture, work or otherwise (intentional or unintentional - that is a perception by a great deal) is far too much of a compartmentalised view of a gamer.

I'm not interested in using terms like woman, man, Caucasian, Transgender, or heterosecual etc to describe a gamer. We're gamers and we are as diverse as any of spectrum, is how I at least strive to think and be as one myself.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Pete Leonard on 7th October 2014 1:26pm

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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
There isn't (and shouldn't be) a monolithic "gamer" culture any more than there is a book reader culture or music listener culture.

The whole point of the article was that the industry HAS pandered to a stereotype to a disproportionate degree for many years.
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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
Why shouldn't there be a gamer culture? What's wrong with being a gamer? Are you say people that identify themselves as a gamer have no identity? There are Sci fi & comic book cultures all equally valid, are you advocating factionalizing gamer culture into sub cultures? That sounds very divisive. I much rather say if you play games you are part of our community whatever walk of life you come from. I certainly don't want to say to Gamers you don't belong, your not wanted.
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Eyal Teler Programmer 4 years ago
Robin Clarke, as the article itself says, gamers (or game players, or whatever you want to call them) these days don't match the stereotype. It follows that the industry does cater to a varied audience. So why is this an issue? The industry should certainly continue to cater to "core gamers" like it caters to other audiences.
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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
The whole point of the article was that the industry HAS pandered to a stereotype to a disproportionate degree for many years.
I think it was the games press that pandered to the stereotype. And mass media.
Now I understand the argument that the industry needs to grow beyond this base so it can rightly be compared to music, books and movies but that doesn't justify the treatment that it's core fans are now being subjected to.
Music genres don't try to grow at the expense of others.
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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
I can't really add anything more to this thread than "no more stupid, I am full".

If someone is subjected to the worst elements of (for want of a better word) a 'culture' every day, of course they are going to form a dim view of it. If they criticise these elements, we should be examining those elements and whether the messages we're sending out are giving them tacit approval, instead of shooting the messenger.

Constantly whining "b-b-b-but not all gamers are like that" is spectacularly missing the point, and it's EXACTLY what the unhappy core of bored troublemakers driving the harrassment mob want you to do. Nobody cares if you're offended. Your false equivalences ("Hey, why isn't there a WHITE History Month?") hold no weight no matter how times you repeat them.

If someone writes something that hurts your feelings the appropriate response is not to try to hound them out of a job.
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
@Jessica Hyland
I don't know. If this many people are supposedly misinterpreting it, then it's badly written.
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Christopher Bowen Editor in Chief, Gaming Bus4 years ago
All I can say about GamerGate at this point is that I am not in the business of negotiating with terrorists.
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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
Another false equivalency, cheers.

And yes, the individuals who have been subject to harrassment are of course taking their cases to the police, what are you insinuating?
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
@Robin Clarke
I have a question for you. What would be the appropriate response? Just say nothing? Not stick up for yourself?

I don't agree with hounding them out of a job, even I personally wouldn't do that. However, I will most certainly speak up for myself and make my stance clear. If someone is making false judgement on an entire group of people, I will point out that they are.

We can't control what a small portion of any given group does. If some gamer acts sexist toward someone, there isn't anything we personally can do about it. We can call them out, but that isn't going to stop them. The best thing to do is ignore people like that, and don't go out and blame the entire group of people who have nothing to do with it.

If we could control people, this wouldn't be an issue.

If someone is subjected to the worst elements of a group or culture, they may form a dim view of it. However .. .that doesn't make them anymore right. In fact they are still wrong and it needs to be pointed out. We can't just examine those elements and fix the issue cause again we can't control people. There will always be people in this world who will cause problems in all groups. You can't base those peoples actions on the entire group.

That is discrimination.
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Jonah Falcon Writer 4 years ago
I use AMD because their less expensive and functional. Don't need Intel.
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Jan Goh Programmer, Ubisoft Montreal4 years ago
@Alex V
I disagree. The PROBLEM is that they decided NOT to get involved in the controversy. They should have held firm with the ads, and run a statement saying that they believe in diversity and women's rights. The issue is a matter of fundamental justice and the way women are treated in the industry. It IS something you should have a position on, and from my perspective, there's actually only one right answer.

Either you support better representation for women in the industry and in the medium, or you're a bit of a jerk. I'm not saying that your games have to be super-feminist, highly politicised works of opinion, but at an abstract level, you should probably agree that women have been under-represented for a long time, that it's good that the industry is changing course and taking steps (and we ARE--by and large I'm seeing more and more people and companies taking a positive stand), and that we'll continue along this course until everyone feels welcome and accepted when they come to buy our products.

This is a conflict worth sticking your neck out over. Intel has more than enough money to weather the storm.

And, frankly, this GamerGate thing unfairly impugns both the gaming media AND the game producers. None of us here should stand for it.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Jan Goh on 7th October 2014 9:26pm

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Jan Goh Programmer, Ubisoft Montreal4 years ago
@Brook Davidson

Nooo, that's really not true. By your argument, it would be irrational of me to discriminate against someone for being sexist, or homophobic, or transphobic or racist. Those ARE people that we should discriminate against. It's not acceptable to discriminate against someone for what they ARE, but nobody is BORN racist or any of the other things I mentioned.

We should not tolerate people in the community that exist only to make the lives of other people uncomfortable. I would rather not sell a game to someone that makes rape threats against female journalists than have them be my BEST customer. I would feel bad that I was empowering someone like that when I can make a decision to tell them that their behaviour is unacceptable.

And the way we--as game creators--do that is by changing our games and changing the discourse surrounding our games. We willingly accept the criticism that our games are too white-male-centric. We strive for diversity in the writing and casting. When people like Anita Sarkeesian or Leigh Alexander write pieces criticising our unintentional sexism, we thank them for being interested enough in games to care to help us make better games. Leigh Alexander's piece, to me, was just saying that we don't have to accept the vitriol coming from a certain segment of the buying public because they're not the WHOLE buying public. We can safely include women and POC and LGBT people as part of our definition of gamers and not have to worry about paying the bills anymore. We can be inclusive and still see success.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Jan Goh on 7th October 2014 9:25pm

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Eyal Teler Programmer 4 years ago
John Owens, we already have sub-genres, such as FPS, RPG, RTS, adventure games... Sure it's possible to add more sub-categories, but I don't think it will achieve much of what you suggest it could.

Robin Clarke, if someone calls you "white boy" that's racism. If a woman says "typical man, he can't do more than one thing at once," that's chauvinism. If someone writes an article about hardcore gamers, which according to statistics have been 30+ on average for many years and calls them teenage boys, that's ignorance or deliberately inflaming, take your pick. Either way, a self respecting publication shouldn't have published this. Of course, there's no such thing in online publications. :)

Now, what Jan Goh says is generally true, and I'm sure a lot of gamers would support it, but it's hard to do when you feel you're under attack. It diverts attention from the issue at hand. Even that issue is only secondary here, since it all started with gamers' lack of trust in gaming publications, and the response has certainly done nothing to encourage such trust, quite the opposite.
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James Brightman Editor, North America, GamesIndustry.biz4 years ago
@ Jan Goh, finally someone is talking sense, thank you.
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Jan Goh Programmer, Ubisoft Montreal4 years ago
@John Owens

I don't see anything wrong with that statement because the only people that identify with it are the people that have a problem.

When I read articles about how 'men' are a threat to women or that 'white people' systematically oppress other races in North America, I don't find that offensive to me despite the fact that I identify both as 'white' and 'male'. Those things aren't offensive to me despite the broad sweep of the words because I KNOW I'm trying not to be part of the problem, and despite the generalisation catching me it its net, I know that it's not targeted at me.

Similarly with this statement: 'games culture' is a very specific group within the group of gamers that have shown themselves as a group to be harassing and misogynist. I identify as a gamer but take no insult because I know that I work to rise above that base culture. They're a subculture of our subculture and I'm only willing to acknowledge that they exist so that I can align myself against them. 'Gamers' as a whole are good people and people that I'm happy to interact and work with. She's casting a broad net, but if you know you're not part of the problem, then you don't have to take it personally.

This is exactly parallel to the whole #NotAllMen garbage. We KNOW not all men are bad people, but men ARE, as a group, an ongoing problem for women. So you either complain that you're unfairly targeted or you accept that there's a good reason why we can make generalisations like that and that you're committed to being better than that.

The GamerGate thing has been constructed out of whole cloth as a way to target and harass a very limited group of people. It isn't, and never has been, a way to get to the bottom of corruption in gaming journalism, a problem that mysteriously never seemed to exist before Zoe Quinn had a disgruntled ex-boyfriend. In this particular paragraph you've picked, you should actually work backwards to figure out who she's talking about: if you're a person that thinks that the GamerGate situation is about social justice and games journalism ethics, you're a person that's so lacking in professional life works and social skill that you're a part of 'games culture'. If you think that GamerGate is an elaborate conspiracy to ruin one woman's life, then you're NOT a part of 'games culture'.

One might say that Leigh Alexander's piece is somewhat heavy handed and hyperbolic, but at this point, I'm really not going to fault her for that. Just because people found it offensive doesn't mean she isn't right. Just because people are offended doesn't mean they're not bad people.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Jan Goh on 7th October 2014 9:26pm

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Darren Adams Managing Director, ChaosTrend4 years ago
I have been reading these comments for a while now (also related articles) and I have to say that commonsense has gone so far up its own backside that all some people seem to be doing now is arguing and fighting about semantics. (as is always the case these days)

Sure there are a few level headed comments, but they are drowned out by the loudest voices on each (dare I say it) sides?? But then again who are we kidding, these sides are not really sides are they? I am sure if you all met up one day and talked it through face to face as human beings, you would find out you all have a lot more in common than you would expect. I bet you would all be really nice to each other and have a really interesting conversation. Hell, some of you may even come to be really good friends.

I love what the internet has done for the sharing of knowledge and human interconnection, but I hate what it has done to the civility of people. Without a human staring back at you it is so easy to dehumanise and detach yourself from some words written on a screen. Its so easy to forget that is a person with feelings, who is the same as you. Just a passenger on the Starship earth....

Its probably the Jack Daniels talking, but hey, lets all just try and remember that the words we read are just people trying to make sense of this unknowable expanse we live in. Give each other a bit of slack.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Darren Adams on 7th October 2014 10:04pm

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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
@Jan Goh
Nooo, that's really not true. By your argument, it would be irrational of me to discriminate against someone for being sexist, or homophobic, or transphobic or racist. Those ARE people that we should discriminate against. It's not acceptable to discriminate against someone for what they ARE, but nobody is BORN racist or any of the other things I mentioned.

We should not tolerate people in the community that exist only to make the lives of other people uncomfortable. I would rather not sell a game to someone that makes rape threats against female journalists than have them be my BEST customer. I would feel bad that I was empowering someone like that when I can make a decision to tell them that their behaviour is unacceptable.
Next time use quotes, cause I honestly have no clue what you are talking about here.

By the way, the definition of discriminate would be to unfairly treat a person or group of people differently from other people or groups. Keyword unfairly. Meaning someone being sexist can't be discriminated against because they would be treated different do to fair reasoning.

Course we could just be arguing over semantics, but know when I say discrimination, THAT is what I mean. That means you argument is entirely invalid since it isn't even what I meant.
When I read articles about how 'men' are a threat to women or that 'white people' systematically oppress other races in North America, I don't find that offensive to me despite the fact that I identify both as 'white' and 'male'. Those things aren't offensive to me despite the broad sweep of the words because I KNOW I'm trying not to be part of the problem, and despite the generalisation catching me it its net, I know that it's not targeted at me.
That is your own opinion and your entitled to it, but just because you don't care about it, doesn't mean others shouldn't. We all think about things differently and the way you think about things isn't the only correct way.
I also am not part of the problem, but I am still going to correct them for generalizing like they did. Simpy cause it's wrong. Not to mention it's preaching to the choir. No matter how many articles they write and blame the entire group, it will not fix the situation. Instead all it does is piss a bunch of people off.
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Jan Goh Programmer, Ubisoft Montreal4 years ago
@Brook Davidson
Discrimination is discrimination .. it doesn't matter what it's for. Being transgender myself, I hate being discriminated against, but I also don't like being discriminated against because I am a gamer as well. Me being a gamer has nothing to do with who I am as a person, just like my gender identity has nothing to do with who I am as a person. it doesn't define me.

If you think discrimination is ok in any sense, you are a terrible person. I don't care if it's for gender, race, hair color, hobby, looks, orientation .. it's all bad. If you discriminate against one of these things, and fight against another .. you are a terrible person and a hypocrite.
Sorry about that--here's what I was responding to, and with your clarification, I think you're probably right that we're more in line than I originally thought.

I've read Leigh Alexander's piece a few times, and I hold that she's calling out a very specific group of people that self-identify as gamers in a very narrow, somewhat antiquated sense. She even puts quotation marks around 'gamer'. Her whole point is that those of us that play games are more and more just saying that we do it as a hobby--'gamers' don't exist as a group anymore, and the people that identify with that subculture are effectively just the people that are behaving badly. The rest of us have moved on and accept that 'gamer' isn't an identity.

The people that orchestrated the Intel mailing campaign are effectively turning the article into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Upset that they were called out over their bad behaviour, they lashed out, proving that they're a group of people that behaves badly. I think the industry can live without those people being our customers.

Rather serendipitously, I just read this rather good essay: http://jonstonechannel2.tumblr.com/post/99246356388/why-bother-with-gamergate

I think it sums up the situation really well--these are the people that Leigh Alexander is talking about.
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
@Jan Goh
Ya .. the overreaction is honestly ridiculous. I maybe against the way the article was worded and written but I also don't think it's right to try and cause trouble for the writer. Disagree and move on I say.
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James Brightman Editor, North America, GamesIndustry.biz4 years ago
Cheers Darren! Everyone commenting here probably could use some Jack Daniels ;-)
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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
Christian, all sub cultures are worth exploring as they describe people. As an entity filled with real human beings, no sub culture is perfect and to pretend all discourse must describe ourselves in only a positive light is a waste of an intellect and a public forum. "It's Un-American to criticize the government in times of War", is a phrase that is constantly running through my mind when people suggest we should unequivocally support all aspects of gaming. Even if I was to concede this point, we are not at war anymore. Gaming won, it's time for self-reflection.

It is *not* discourse when people selectively only talk about positive traits - that is a lobby group, not journalism. Gaming was once the go to scapegoat for every negative aspect of society. That era is gone; force yourself to release a large sigh of relief. It is time to be a grown up and be able to start discussions about our subculture without a knee jerk reaction to any exploration at all, and *especially* discourse you arbitrarily disagree with. It doesn't matter if someone disagrees with you. This is absolutely critical in any field of study.

Additionally, and most importantly, talking professionally (both good and bad) about our sub culture does not decry gaming as a whole or the people who love gaming. You are searching for controversy where there just isn't any. All subcultures evolve and adapt and change, with countless citations by academics at each stage of their evolution. Pretending subcultures are monolithic is ignorant to the countless amount of research completed on movements, as she rightly points out some people who "drink the kool aid" will resist any type of shift within a subculture. Her article is expressing that there are different phenotypes of gamers. This is healthy, and non-controversial, see subculture studies on Heavy Metal groups for pretty clear comparisons. Not only is the medium increasingly complex and broad - so is the audience. This is not restricted to video games either; cyber cultures are evolving even faster as a whole. All communities are being flooded with increasingly complex demographics, and there will be people resistant to this, this is obvious and non-controversial within culture studies of the Internet.

Her article was not written out of contempt for the interactive medium under any interpretation. Nor is anyone else who spends their very precious time exploring the interactive medium or its audience. Anita Sarkeesian deliberately starts out every episode noting that;

"...it's both possible and necessary to simultaneously enjoy media while also being critical of its more pernicious aspects."

This goes for exploration of *every* subculture as well. Gaming is still here, her article didn't destroy anything. It doesn't actually matter. Anger is childish, misplaced and not constructive.

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 8th October 2014 5:46am

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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
She was talking about people who act and self-identify with gaming as being a white male dominated field. Those people *are* drinking some variety of Kool-Aid.

We are all gamers, it's deliberate misinterpretation to suggest she was suggesting all people who play games are at fault, she clearly loves games. She was providing a thought exercise that perhaps if people continue to suggest video games remain an exclusive activity for white hetero sexual males then perhaps the rest of society should move on from the label. An idea that has been proposed by a multitude of sub cultures when divide begins to form underneath a broad label. Humanists versus Athiests versus Agnostics etc.

Additionally it is a stretch to suggest YouTube popularity is a symptom of poor journalism. YouTube's popularity is soaring in all fields irrespective to the level of quality of journalism. It's another facet of self-expression for people. This constant drum being banged about the poor quality of games journalism is soaked in tin foil hats. There is no monolithic games journalism. There is perhaps an educated institutionalized monolithic "criticism" culture spread across all film, video games, literature and music writers. But this isn't a problem related exclusively to video games nor is anyone acting emotional or heated about the plethora of music or film reviews appearing online. If anything it's providing a platform for many new voices such as Red Letter Media or The Needle Drops. Nothing is killing film journalism *anymore* then anything is killing video game journalism.

The Internet is a disruptive force and besides the ramifications of that, there is nothing special about video games journalism that makes it any greater target than any other specialist press. Gaming is still here. Leigh Alexander can't hurt you.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 8th October 2014 8:03am

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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
Yes, you are misinterpreting it, deliberately seeking the worst interpretation. This is why we are all baffled. People are misinterpreting Anita Sarkessian as well, claiming she is attacking video games, when in fact some of the games she is citing are amongst her favourites. Both explorations of the medium and gamer culture are pointed towards specific issues and problem sectors and are not a reflection of interactivity as a whole or people who play games as a whole. Obviously. Many times over obviously - which again is the reason we are baffled.

Leigh is a part of the current gamer culture and indeed loves games, but we are all aware of a part of gamer culture that will resist divorcing itself from the white hetero sexual stereotype typified during the 90s and competitive gaming spaces. These people and these people alone in her opinion are associated with that wall of text you inflexible keep quoting out of context.
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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
Again there is little more I can say.

No body was calling all gamers basement dwellers, nobody has ever claimed all gamers are misogynists, nobody here has ever suggested playing games or loving games is a negative thing. These writers have only ever been addressing the group of entitled people who self identify as gamers who defend there past time in a way that is exclusionary to others. Individuals who relish in the gamer archetype constructed in the 90s (and was largely a falsehood then too).

Again, you will drag out a sentence and try to argue that this is not the case and the circle will pointlessly continue. But for a second, what if we are all right? What if all this time you have been misguided by some level of cognitive bias preventing you from actually seeing the subdued point her and others were trying to make instead of the one you seem to interpret? Would you feel embarrassed by all this drummed up drama being generated? What if you were wrong this whole time?

Again, nobody in there right mind is claiming anything you are claiming. This is why we are confused and why it's just a complete facepalm disaster.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 8th October 2014 11:54am

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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
I've read Leigh Alexander's piece a few times, and I hold that she's calling out a very specific group of people that self-identify as gamers in a very narrow, somewhat antiquated sense. She even puts quotation marks around 'gamer'
So saying "Muslims" are terrorists is OK with you? Just because the word Muslim is in quotes? Is it perfectly fine to say that because the Muslims that aren't terrorists know that I'm not talking about them? Personally no I feel it is not, an attack on "gamer" is an attack on all Gamers
Nooo, that's really not true. By your argument, it would be irrational of me to discriminate against someone for being sexist, or homophobic, or transphobic or racist. Those ARE people that we should discriminate against. It's not acceptable to discriminate against someone for what they ARE, but nobody is BORN racist or any of the other things I mentioned.
You can definitely call someone up on being bigoted it's important to do that, it's the main reason I've spoken up against Leigh, as I feel it is a very bigoted piece, soon as you start generalizing the actions of a group like "gamers" based on the actions of a few you become a bigot, still she has a right to those opinions I don't think Gamasutra was the place to air them, it's more of a personal blog piece.
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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
I think you have more contact with gamers every day, then she has.
Pretty much any woman in games journalism who puts their head above the parapet gets unsolicited email and Twitter messages every day. You seem to be completely oblivious of how the world operates outside of your little bubble.

...

This article is an eye opener: http://seriouspony.com/trouble-at-the-koolaid-point
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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
Gamer Network was founded in 1999 so it must of been in use back then
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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
Christian, the term gamer has existed since the 1980's. Enough with the strawmen, it's not about the word. The letterman sports jacket wearing "Captain N the Game Master" and the cast of characters including the PowerGlove sporting Lucas in the Wizard was already reflecting the 1980's belief about what people thought gamers were. I say that it was constructed even back then because all kinds of people were playing games, not just boys with their Game*boys*. The word Gamer has such demographic connotations even today that Leigh suggested abandoning the label as a vocal few are draconianly defending against the inevitable further broadening of the medium. She wasn't the first to suggest it, nor is it unusual to suggest new labels in sub cultures.

John Owens. This is a separate complex issue you are raising, and I'd rather not derail the thread, but it will slightly. In classical studies Racism/Sexism is not an act one group of people exerts onto another. It is an innate property of society.

When identical resumes are sent out for the same job, female names get fewer call backs than male ones. This occurs in both female dominated careers like primary school teaching where men are highly sort after as well as male dominated industries like software development. The identical problem occurs with African sounding names. This innate property can be lowered and raised based on the current climate but exists pervasively across all of society. There is non stop dispute about what can influence it's rise and fall.

Someone theoretically could go through their whole life without an outward act of racial prejudice, however they are still impacted by this innate property of society, they had to be luckier on the bell curve or work harder to get to an equal standing. America has a Black president and the most famous scientist in the world is Neil Degrasse Tyson but both of them faced unique challenges that others just did not have to experience. This is also why in gender/race studies pervasive racism against white people or males cannot exist (which is non intuitive to those who don't study the field and in public circles is a needlessly controversial point). Racial Prejudice can obviously be exerted on whites or males but these acts, comments or violence is going against this innate sexist/racist property in society, on the bell curve these acts don't limit your social status unlike the pervasive kind of racism/sexism does. These actions are already publicly frowned upon and are often caused by other flow on effects anyway, such as poverty or previous cultural injustices.

This isn't because people *are* racist or "black men are more racist" as Chris Rock suggests. In word association games we are all sexist/racist, it's not because we have deliberate malice (even if a minority do). Often the recruiters in HR who are biasly selecting white male resumes are women themselves, many active feminist. This pervasive sexism manifests itself in all people, in many, many ways; it influences our media, our work day, our environment, our child raising, our society and our fashion. Outside of countries where real suffrage problems still exist this passive pervasive kind of sexism/racism is the only interesting point gender studies now actively explores.

Video games don't cause racism/sexism, they are just artifacts of today's culture zeitgeist and are worth examining. They are time capsules of who we are and where we are at. Cinema, another male dominated field where over >98% of Directors are male still produce a plethora of content that targets all genders; video games can do a lot better at this and we don't just need to recruit more women to solve it. But no one is suggesting fixing video games will fix the innate property of society. In cultural studies there is a belief that identifying and classifying these artifacts of society is a worthy endeavor in itself. Certainly creative people being more aware of why they make certain content decisions is nothing but good and producing a shared language is the first step. Genre cinema still exists, blacksploitation cinema still exists, female-exploitation cinema still exists.... God of War can and should still exist. Understanding our content decisions is nothing but valuable.

Now, whether you agree with that or not should not matter anyway, people spend all their lives classifying all kinds of theoretical aspects of our society without controversy. People need not agree, it's just an act of discourse that will go on, with or without the permission of others.

So back to your point. If you are right? And a handful of people overstepped the mark and said something that overreached and offended others? Then nothing has changed. Sexism/Racism is a property of our society. Video games are a reflection of our current cultural point and writers will continue to explore that in journals, on YouTube and in public presentations. This isn't going away and it has been here for decades in academic circles. The output of current writers like Leigh or Anita aren't influencing anything to any great degree, so the response or backlash to their writing should also reflect this minimal contribution. Neither contribution in-itself is that meaningful as this discourse is going to continue with or without them, as exploring all aspects of society can't be stopped. I don't see the controversy, nor do I see the point of being outraged when I disagree with the countless number of writers talking about film, literature music or film.

As I said at the beginning, anger at anything sans government regulation is probably an overreaction. So even if I was on your side, I am still confused by the level of response.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 8th October 2014 1:49pm

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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
@Christian
I said not to be distracted by the straw men. In any case here's an excerpt just randomly from my archive of CVG Magazine Issues 26 (December 1983). This magazine has 5 instances of the word Gamer in total, but I just randomly picked an issue.

I read an article on the etymology of the term in the early 2000s. I believe instances can be found even from the 1970s, and decades earlier in references applied to people playing chess. I'm sorry I don't have this article handy to cite.

@John Owens, no one here is arguing for or against affirmative action, this is a very left field area to bring up. It is a political stance you are taking, not necessarily a reasoned one. Affirmative action may or may not work, but every western society that has some level of affirmative action has had great success in lowering the pervasive racism in society. I have no stance on the issue and neither is it a core tenet in the the cyber feminist moment (of which gaming is just one phenotype).

It's a muddled issue, but speaking to its effectiveness is definitely not clearly a fact one way or another. Nobody really knows or understands with any certainty how the pervasive levels of racism in society can be lowered. These sorts of activities can take a decade or even a generation to yield useful longitudinal studies. Of which the results are all very muddled. Whatever we are doing is working though.

But anyway, I've avoided speaking on this topic for weeks now, and I've made my point as clear as I can. I doubt there is much more I can say that isn't just repeating myself.

Cheers

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 8th October 2014 3:04pm

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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
No medium has ever suffered from increased discourse, and all other mediums have mostly gone through what we are going through here and have all benefited without exception from it.

There just isn't any evidential precedent on your side. Wake me when the government steps in to conduct wide sweeping regulation.
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Brook Davidson Artist / 3D design 4 years ago
If the writing was so misunderstood, than it was poorly written. You are suppose to be writing to an audience and if you write it in a way that is going to cause a lot of misinterpreting, then that person failed as a writer. So either the writer meant all gamers, or the writer is a fairly bad writer.
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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
@John, sorry I will be clearer, because there is no evidence of a negative impact to any medium no matter how few or how many writers use language that in your opinion turn people away. No medium in the long run has ever been negatively impacted, and all of them have had all kinds of writers. So even if I concede your point which I weakly do, it really doesn't matter.

@Brook, this I agree with it is definetly one of those two things. However it is not that simple either, as almost every *angry* critism involving GamerGate, Sarkessian or cyber feminism in general is also steeped in misunderstanding so perhaps everyone who writes and speaks about feminism is a poor communicator? Perhaps every medium that has faced these sorts of issues was also staffed with poor communicators? Or is it more likely people are clouded by cognitive bias deliberately seeking the worst interpretation? Feminism and the exploration of feminist ideas through media or suggesting to abandon a label for another are wholly not this exciting or worthy of controversy.

A lot of bad writers out there it seems.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 8th October 2014 10:18pm

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Shane Sweeney Academic 4 years ago
@Christian
This is no worse then the critically applauded article and traveling public lecture by Greg Costikyan titled "Death to the Games Industry", one of the most influential articles in video game history whose talk / article is often credited by writers as being the biggest factor in starting the Indie Game designer revolution. His words were unbridled, filled with emotion and used language that may "put people off", but look we are all still here and the medium isn't hurt as a result.

I can number countless influential articles with such headlines from all mediums and social movements. It is pretty standard journalism, and to paraphrase Warren Spector, "people prefer to make statements through overstatement". It's a literary technique one which you can arbitrarily like or dislike, but trust me, Greg Costikyan didn't want ALL of the Games Industry to die. To say so is deliberately and maliciously searching for the worst possible interpretation of his article and this is no different.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Shane Sweeney on 9th October 2014 12:47am

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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
More snide innuendoes. How pathetic. It is embarrassing that you think this is an appropriate way to conduct yourself on a public professional forum.
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@John Owens - Have skipped a lot of these comments through sheer cannot-be-fuckedness but your last post was just mystifyingly ignorant.

One - honest question John, have you ever actually met any female journalists? Most I've met have been every bit as representative of our industry/culture as male journo's & developers - famously normal, decent, clever, dweeby and only as ego free as the next man or woman. Most of them are parents. Imperfect like the rest of us, they certainly are not the Jessica Rabbits your imagination has sexing up witless editors left and right. I can honestly state my own real life experiences of female journalists are so boringly opposite to your fantastic theories - and if they are not just theories, please inform us about your personal experiences that root them in reality.

Two - How on earth did you ever think *Journosex* was a scandalous issue in the first place? I would suggest part of your problem is that you consult sites like Breitbart.com. with a straight reading face. A trolling rag, it draws from the same well as extreme Christian social conservatism. It has as much intellectual rigour and relevance as David Icke riding a 4,000 year old Dinosaur. If you can't see the right-wing propaganda lens through which that paragraph presents the situation, please start with this wording: "vivacious young women" and "socially awkward males". If you honestly do not see leading language in that paragraph, then can I ask how long it's been since you stopped beating your wife?

By far the most damaging and easy way to be an internet warrior is to indulge conspiracies i.e. the unprovable. Where real world problems exist (actual government terrorism, secrecy and cynicism) conspiracies arrive to fuck up the fight against them (mind-controlling lizards in UFO's). Because conspiracies are not based on reality, the chosen evil enemy(tm) can mushroom to vast imaginary proportions with tentacles in every stratum of power and influence, making you even bigger for taking them on, naturally. But most important of all, because conspiracies are unprovable, no real physical work has to be done to change things. Mere internet rage is enough, and any old twat can have a go at that.

From what I can see Gamergate has all the logic and pace and screaming-to-negate-thought of the best Area51-ate-my-mother Alex Jones claptrap. It's foundational document is a kiss-and-tell story by an ex about their ex. You could not form a more awkward, spotty-teen, problematic and tasteless scaffold for a conspiracy than that.

Edited 3 times. Last edit by Barry Meade on 9th October 2014 4:07pm

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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
I just quoted a someone else's words and I agree with him that it is a question I would like answered.
You expected that people on this topic access this forum in any other than Write only mode ?
More snide innuendoes. How pathetic. It is embarrassing that you think this is an appropriate way to conduct yourself on a public professional forum.
Its perfectly valid and acceptable to argue. Less so to be condescending.
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Robin Clarke Producer, AppyNation Ltd4 years ago
Its perfectly valid and acceptable to argue. Less so to be condescending.
When someone is quoting articles from a site that's about as credible as a news source as the Weekly World News, it's hard not to be condescending.
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(Rags? Not all sources of information are equal, even on the internet, and it serves your brain no purpose to believe otherwise)

So: by your reading, "The Industry" is behind pushing journalists to browbeat indie devs into being more inclusive so that AAA can eventually feed off the carcasses?

Sheesh! How head-spinning, no wonder you're upset :P Can I ask why is Gamergate not exactly what it looks like - a bunch of people on the internet coalescing around an argument? Why must there be a grand-wizard character - Academic feminazi's, industry cabals, whatever - behind it all, manipulating everyone? This is exactly my point about conspiracies destroying possibilities for change by ballooning the scale of problems and misleading people down all kinds of dead ends.

I'd suggest we strictly stick to documented fact in everything we say and do regarding this issue, otherwise the mistakes of flawed, everyday people are being given a cosmic significance they can't hope to fight against or endure. And when considering the facts of the case wemust also consider their context - and the imperfect, maybe scared people responsible - if we hope to make common sense of them. And try very hard not to read between the lines of anything. If you can't prove something John then you cannot repeat it as evidence for anything, and in fact you need to reconsider whether it is helpful information at all in knowing the truth.

Secondly, if you have scraps of verifiable information yet cannot piece together the whole truth of a situation, please consider that it may not be your inability to fill in the gaps, rather that it's entirely possible there *is* no greater story with *no* overarching driving force behind it and that all the scraps you have are just that - distinct, remote islands of information about incidents or individuals that have or had nothing to do with each other in the first place.

Conspiracies work in exactly this way - it's not the facts that are important, it's how you fill in the gaps with imaginary windmills to tilt at. There may be something behind the claim that journalists and devs are sometimes too close to be unbiased professionally. But that's not because they are an elite class above the law - it's entirely the opposite, that they are so boringly human and prone to the winds of life and circumstance and pressure that everybody else is. 55% of marriages end in divorce, and 45% of divorces are due to infidelity. Want to know why one person slept with another? Ask your parents or your friends parents. But don't ask freaking Breitbart.com

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes journalists just make mistakes. The internet has a nest of bitter twerps ready to rise & savage anyone in the public eye who dares to be human and stupid at the same time. As observers, we get a choice to pile on someone's else's miseries or not. The folks at the centre of this storm have no such possibility and no way out. Whatever mistakes were made have been paid for in a manner so stark and invasive and abusive you can't even begin to dream of.
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Rachel Weber Senior Editor, GamesIndustry.biz4 years ago
So relieved to have people like Barry Meade in this industry and on this site.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Rachel Weber on 9th October 2014 6:20pm

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Rachel Weber Senior Editor, GamesIndustry.biz4 years ago
Which is what you've done with Leigh's writing, right Christian?

"Leigh Alexander is a grave digger for games journalism."

Oh, maybe not.
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Craig Burkey Software Engineer 4 years ago
For me the problem is, the fact Gamasutra chose to publish the offending article in the form it was, without providing an alternate view point, proves there is an internal problem at Gamasutra, I think it was a mistake but they dug in, rather than look at how they can address controversial opinion pieces, in a more balanced way. Ignoring the situation and pretending there isn't an issue will just feed the conspiracy theorists. I hope when things have died down, and emotions aren't as frayed, the brave Intel decision will be looked up upon in a new light, and cause some internal reflection

edit:corrected my dyslexic spelling, and improved my quite poor punctuation

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Craig Burkey on 10th October 2014 9:45am

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Tom Keresztes Programmer 4 years ago
For me the problem is the fact Gamasutra chose to publish the offending article in the form it was without providiving an alternate view point proves there is an internal problem at Gamasutra,
My problem was that it was posted as a news article, not as a blog post.
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