One Love

Q: It must be pretty exciting to be on the verge of announcing a One Big Game title - now it's out there, how does it feel?

Martin de Ronde: There are two phases to that - the first phase, because we're the spiritual publisher of every One Big Game game we're doing, is that we have these great creative people come to us with the vision that they have for the game. That really is a tantalising prospect - it's usually a one-liner.

Then, after a couple of months we see a prototype - when you're a normal publisher and buy products from developers, it's a business... Here it's business, but it also feels like the developer is giving you a present - that's the charity angle.

The second phase is the unveiling - which is like any other commercial unveiling. You're really anxious about how people will respond to it. Judging by the feedback that we got initially on WINtA I'm really pleased - it's a feeling of relief, pride and happiness that we can finally show it.

One Big Game games normally take longer than other games, so it's always good to get another one out in the open. Chime set a really high standard in terms of critical acclaim, and we wondered if that would cause problems for other games later - but then we saw a prototype of WINtA and we weren't worried.

We're really happy with WINtA - it looks like it's going to hit the same quality level as Chime, which is really important to us.

Q: You're a bit of a hub in some ways, in terms of matching creative visionaries with developers - what drew you to Triangle Studios for the WINtA collaboration?

Martin de Ronde: Well, the history of Triangle being involved with NanaOn-Sha is really rather straightforward. We get approached by people all the time, as a matter of fact I was just approached by a developer right after the Festival of Games talk wanting to do something - they're a specialist in DSiWare.

I basically take that comment and store it away - and the same thing happened with Triangle. Two really nice guys came up to me after a talk I did at the school they had previously graduated from. They told me they were really impressed with the One Big Game story, and asked if there was something they could do, saying that their studio focused on iPhone and iPod Touch development.

I stored it, and a couple of weeks later I met with NanaOn-Sha for a progress meeting - they told me then that the game they had they wanted to do on iPhone and iPod Touch... So I set up a meeting between the two at Tokyo Games Show. I told the Triangle guys to meet them, see if they had chemistry, a shared vision - they came back, told me they'd had a great time, as if it was always meant to be.

I knew right away this was going to be a good marriage... It's like I'm doing speed-dating - or slow-dating, because games take so long to make...

Q: You should set up an agency...

Martin de Ronde: It's finding the right pieces of the puzzle - that's the good thing about the charity angle, you just find the people that want to work together in a collaborative process. In a normal business environment it's not so easy - you get what people offer you, and sometimes they don't want to work with other people because they have to have an argument about revenue-sharing or something.

In this case it's much easier. We try and combine the right people with the right project - it was the same with David Perry's project. The Dutch link is obvious - I speak to a lot of developers here, but I'm not just adding any developer to any famous game designer.

Q: Of course, there's the obvious broad benefit to the project, in terms of raising money for good causes - but there's an additional benefit to these pairings, in terms of giving smaller teams experience of working with industry legends, the mentoring, and so on. Was that intentional, or has it just worked out that way?

Martin de Ronde: I think partially it was intentional, in that we've taken our cue for One Big Game from the music industry. When we said we wanted to do Band Aid for videogames, that was the original standpoint. But if you look at the music industry in general, you see a lot of duets happening - George Michael invites Elton John on-stage to perform a certain song, and not only do you get a refreshing take on that song, but you also see a bit of a career re-launch for Elton John off the back of it.

These dynamics happen when two people from the same creative business work together - but how many games designers have worked together in the past 30 years, in terms of the big names, and that yielding interesting results?

So I hope that not only can we boost indie talent by pairing it with famous games designers, but perhaps we could one day see two famous designers work together on one small One Big Game.

You do see that process of people learning from one another, though - Matsuura-san is contributing a lot to Triangle Studios in terms of how he things and designs, but at the same time, Triangle Studios - with their approach to things - are giving him knowledge that's also worthwhile.

It's definitely a two-way process, and that's why it's working so well.

Q: The WINtA collaboration is particularly interesting, because it's East-meets-West, set against a backdrop of the Japanese industry needing (but largely failing) to appeal increasingly to a global audience.

Martin de Ronde: Yes - and that's something we also have to get used to. The Japanese culture is a very polite culture and we've all heard the stories about presenting something to a company in Japan - but they don't want to say to your face that it's not very good... so you do the reverse as well.

But Matsuura-san is interesting, because he's already very poly-cultural, and that entire process... You could see it during the first couple of brainstorming sessions - we were trying to find our way, but in the manner he responded to people's ideas you could see a new dynamic coming into play. People let go of the cultural boundaries, it was refreshing.

Q: It's a fascinating role to play for you - the enabler.

Martin de Ronde: I think that's what we do - we enable it to happen.

Q: So let's clarify the business model - Chime was released earlier this year and all revenues went to One Big Game for a period of four months. After that, the charity no longer benefits at all?

Martin de Ronde: Actually no, we're very grateful to [Chime developer] Zoe Mode - the original idea was to have a limited exclusivity period, then remove the game wherever it was, and then the developer would be entitled to release a version that had to be different from the original. But practically, if you launch something on XBLA, you can't tell Microsoft to just switch it off - you need to work with product updates, it's a bit more complicated.

So with Chime XBLA we're likely going to work with a product update that will turn it into the developer-profit version. If things go well there will be further versions in the franchise - but Zoe Mode has already indicated to us that they are considering donating a percentage or proceeds still to charity.

In the initial period for One Big Game it's 100 per cent, we have the rights - but after that exclusivity period Zoe Mode can decide if they want to donate. We think it's fantastic that they want to continue, as it's not stipulated in any kind of contract.

Q: And to be perfectly clear, when you say "100 per cent" of revenues, that must be after a degree of costs are taken into account?

Martin de Ronde: No - to set the record straight once and for all - Zoe Mode has created the game completely, with a dedicated team. All the proceeds that we get from Microsoft are going to charity for our exclusive period - they're not getting anything of that at all.

Q: It's a massive effort - will WINtA work on the same model?

Martin de Ronde: With that game there's a slightly different departure point, because as you may or may not have seen, free apps with additional downloadable content is becoming more of a dominant model on the iPhone. We're suddenly faced with a situation where the developer is creating the game pro bono, in their spare time, and then the game gets released - but there needs to be support for that game on a monthly basis.

If we were to have an exclusivity period of 4-6 months, we'd be doubling the amount of work for the developer - so we haven't quite figured out how we're going to make it work, but we may decide to actually use some of the revenues to cover some support costs, and regard that almost in the same way as the fee you pay to platform holders. We have to cover that out of revenue, but obviously the rest goes to One Big Game.

Q: I guess the beauty of it is that you can take a different business model for each game, depending on the developer, the platform, and so on.

Martin de Ronde: Exactly.

Q: The first time we spoke was almost three years ago in Brighton - a lot's changed in that time, obviously, and I guess you must feel there's strong momentum to the project?

Martin de Ronde: We need to sustain the momentum now, but that's a bit self-sustaining in some ways. The games come out, people take notice - Chime has sold well, and what's happening is that people who were sitting on the fence a little bit now come on board, because they see it's becoming a reality.

While we were doing our evangelisation process in the past few years, there were lots of people that were interested but some - quite naturally - adopted a wait-and-see approach. We've grateful to Zoe Mode for being the first group in that regard... and for delivering a game of such quality. If it had just been average, then people might only have been aiming to make 60 per cent games for One Big Game.

So we momentum, which we need to feed - to co-ordinate the process and make sure that good games come out, and keep coming out. It's a tremendous sigh of relief, as well as joy and happiness.

From an entrepreneurial angle I get as much of a kick from scoring a deal with Sony for a first-person shooter as I do for signing Masaya Matsuura for One Big Game. There are more great game designers lined up, so we're really looking forward to it.

Q: For the release of Chime, did you ask Microsoft to waive the 30 per cent XBLA commission?

Martin de Ronde: Not officially - we did have discussions about it, but only with people who weren't able to make a decision on it. It's a practical situation.

Q: Is it something you'd approach differently next time?

Martin de Ronde: Microsoft has been really helpful - they promoted Chime at launch, pro bono, and promoted it again recently. It's just that they're a big corporation, with rules and regulations - if you're doing a charity project, and your charity partners are on Microsoft corporate charity partners list, you certainly get a lot more done than if they aren't.

We can't ask Microsoft to change its corporate rules - it's as simple as that - so we just have to live with the fact that 30 per cent isn't waived, and we don't hold it against them. We never officially asked them, but just had discussions to find out if it was practical or not.