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Battlefield dev: Blocking used games about "creating benefits for consumers"

Battlefield dev: Blocking used games about "creating benefits for consumers"

Tue 01 May 2012 4:41pm GMT / 12:41pm EDT / 9:41am PDT
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Interim DICE CEO Patrick Bach says blocking used games not about "being evil or stupid"

The business of used games continues to be a major talking point at this juncture, especially with rumors of next-gen consoles possibly blocking used titles from playing. The latest comment comes from Battlefield 3 developer EA DICE, where interim CEO Patrick Bach says that ultimately the goal is to create a benefit to consumers, rather than try to take away experiences.

"Yeah, I heard about that. I think that can be a win and a loss," Bach said to CVG in reaction to the rumored anti-used technology in the upcoming consoles. "I think it's a loss if it only means that you will be able to get fewer games for the same money. But in theory you could see it the other way, because a lot of companies making games today are struggling based on second-hand sales."

Overall, Bach believes that there will ultimately be more money spent by core gamers, but that kind of money is still being spent for the value offered, rather than by necessity. Essentially, Bach argues that the removal of the secondary market would give more developers an opportunity to sell their products.

"So if you think that there are too few new IPs on the market, no one can take that risk if their game is at risk of being resold too many times. Therefore you see a lot of online games being the most popular. You mentioned that you feel like a lot of [online shooters] have the same formula and this is one of the reasons, which most people seem to not realize."

"So on the positive side you could see more games being created because of this, and also more new IPs, because there'd be a bigger market for games that don't have for instance multiplayer," Bach continued. "There could be awesome single player-only games, which you can't really do these days because people just pirate them, which is sad."

In the end, Bach believes that blocking used games on next-gen could actually be good for consumers. "From a gamer perspective, if you want to buy as many games as possible then this could be a problem, but if you want more diverse games then it's a more positive thing than negative. The only thing I know is that people are not doing it to be evil and stupid, it's about trying to create some benefits for consumers."

The debate rages on of course, with developers trending more towards embracing the idea of killing the used games market. Despite this, GameStop and other retailers have insisted that their business only promotes the industry.

13 Comments

Morville O'Driscoll
Games Blogger & Journalist

Just like the war against piracy - it's not (entirely) the fact that people object to DRM, it's that so much DRM has little value, and just obstructs the consumer. Give the consumer a positive to both things - DRM and restricting/removing second-hand sales - and chances are most will follow you. Just look at how many PC gamers say "No Steam, No Sale".

Posted:A year ago

#1

Top Comment I could spend 1,000 hours combating everything stupid that was said by this developer. Or, I could be brief, and just say that everything that came out of this man's mouth was fucking bullshit.

Posted:A year ago

#2

He's right that piracy is fought with value not DRM, but EA and DICE are part of the problem, not the solution. Steam encourages legitimate buyers because of the benefits of its community, sales, and effective design. Origin does not.

What's totally stupid is his claim that singleplayer games are endlessly pirated and just lose money. Yeah, that's why Skyrim is way more successful than Battlefield 3... oh wait.

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Nicholas Pantazis on 1st May 2012 7:32pm

Posted:A year ago

#3

Morville O'Driscoll
Games Blogger & Journalist

What's totally stupid is his claim that singleplayer games are endlessly pirated and just lose money. Yeah, that's why Skyrim is way more successful than Battlefield 3... oh wait.
Yeah, I originally had a snarky sentence in my comment above about how he should talk to Gabe Newell Re: piracy, value, and single-player games. Thought it was a bit too snarky though. :)

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Morville O'Driscoll on 1st May 2012 7:44pm

Posted:A year ago

#4

Paolo Giunti
Localisation Project Manager

Essentially, Bach argues that the removal of the secondary market would give more developers an opportunity to sell their products.
I wouldn't be too sure about it.
Quite often, from hearign what friends say, when it comes to the used market, the option is between buying second hand or not buying at all.

I actually can relate to this line of thought myself. There are some titles that may pick my interest, but not enough to consider them worthy of the full price. So, either I find the game at a sensibly lower price (and that's normally in the second hand section) or I simply turn my attention to something else.

Also, it is to my understanding (tho, i may be wrong here), that the majority fo the people who sell their games to the used market, tend to just sell those titles they weren't particularly impressed with... and often they were already feeling a bit iffy about the game when they bought it.
This basically means that the possibility of resale serves as a parachute: they buy it, and if they don't like it, then they can, at least, get part of their money back.
Given that, if you take away this possibility, wouldn't it make them more cautious about their purchases and, subsequently, buy less new games?

I also would like to highlight an other possible scenario:
I'm primarily a PC gamer and if i play on a console, it's primarly party games (or any other game i can just play split-screen with a friend sitting ont he same couch). This means that I often enough bring games to a friend's place and play on his console and vice versa.
Now, if a used game block prevents me to play my games at my friend's place, then my reaction would be to buy much less games for consoles. And, for the record, this woudn't be out of spite and anger, but merely a natural response: if i know can't do what i want to with my purchase, then why bother making the purchase in the first place?


You gotta take the above with a grain of salt, as it reflects only the general opinion of the small group of consumers i personally know (including myself). However, we don't feel like we're much different from the average gamer out there and I honestly think the "no used market = more sales" equation isn't as granted as some make it sound.

Edited 2 times. Last edit by Paolo Giunti on 1st May 2012 9:35pm

Posted:A year ago

#5

Not a fan of second hand and only buy second hand games if I can`t find a new copy at all in the store but his perception is quite wrong I would argue. Regarding that blocking second hand games would lead to more diversity and more new IP`s and more sales for developers simply because of the fact that many finance buying new games by trading old games in and therefore it`s less of a risk for people to buy games because if they don`t like it they can still trade it back in.

From that point of view I would actually say that blocking used games fully would lead to lower sales for new IP`s because people would be very cautious of how they invest their money in games since they can`t get money back from it. So people would end up more and more buying IP`s they know and trust to deliver what they want.

Posted:A year ago

#6

Morville O'Driscoll
Games Blogger & Journalist

It depends on if the newer IP titles were cheaper. Theoretically, with publishers/developers getting more money per game, there'd be the opportunity for a proper tiered-pricing structure in console games. However, that seems unlikely to happen. More probable is that publishers/developers would get more money per game and keep the pricing system as-is. Unfortunately.

Posted:A year ago

#7

The pricing isn`t a console only problem you have that on PC as well where games that came out at the same time as Witcher 2 but surely needed a smaller budget cost the exactly the same.

Posted:A year ago

#8

Kristoffer Sandberg
Studying Computer Games Development

Quite often, from hearign what friends say, when it comes to the used market, the option is between buying second hand or not buying at all.
This is the same for piracy, and in both cases the developer and publisher gets nothing. For almost everyone I know it's either pirating or not playing. And yet piracy is seen as something bad and second hand sales as something good. And if you only care about the consumer (short term) you could argue that piracy is the best route to get games, because it's fast, easy and free.

I really don't get why so many are upset that developers wants to stop used game sales.

Posted:A year ago

#9

Barrie Tingle
Live Producer

Same as Werner, I only buy 2nd hand games if I can't find a new copy online or in the local game shop.

The issue with Bach's comment about new IP's coming out if 2nd hand market didn't exist is a little inaccurate. Publishers will still be after the big money which currently is in FPS titles above all other genres. Just because there is no 2nd hand market wouldn't switch Publishers onto other genres. There is still the risk it won't sell and thats a risk few Publishers will/want to take.

Lets face it, digital distribution is how 2nd hand sales will be ended and Microsoft has shown it isn't interested in that at this point with their recent comments about being happy with releasing 6 months after retail.

Nicholas Pantazis - Oddly enough checking your own site shows that Battlefield 3 is outselling Skyrim.

Posted:A year ago

#10

Morville O'Driscoll
Games Blogger & Journalist

@ Barrie

But only by a little over 1 million units, across all platforms. Whilst technically Nicholas is wrong, the fact that a single-player RPG is not far off 1-for-1 with a multiplayer FPS shows how incorrect Bach's comment is.

Posted:A year ago

#11

Barrie Tingle
Live Producer

I totally agree the comment is incorrect, I was just playing devils advocat to the Skyrim vs BF3 comment :)

Edited 1 times. Last edit by Barrie Tingle on 2nd May 2012 11:35pm

Posted:A year ago

#12

Paolo Giunti
Localisation Project Manager

@Kristoffer

My argument above was actually purely technical, i'm trying to stay away from the whole right/wrong debate and simply look at the facts.

The overall question is: "If you block the used market, will sales increase?"
My personal answer is "Not by much" exactly because of that sentence you quoted.

And so here i wonder: is it really worth the trouble? Especially considering that whatever kind of protection si employed to block second hand games is certainly going to cause annoyances even to genuine users (just like DRMs do).

Posted:A year ago

#13

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