UKIE's Jo Twist - Part 2

Continuing on from where we left yesterday's discussion with UKIE's new CEO Jo Twist, we have part two of the same interview, in which the executive discusses combating piracy, complimenting the work of TIGA and how the UK can better manage the boom-and-bust nature of project-based employment.

Q: I wanted to ask you a little bit about the revisions which SOPA has undergone recently and the industry's reaction to it. What do you see as the best way to deal with the issue of piracy? Is it better to incentivise legal downloads or to punish illegal activity?

Jo Twist: From a UKIE position, we're involved in lots of conversations about IP, and obviously we have the IP crime unit, which does an amazing job in tackling criminal activity around piracy.

Q: Meaning mass production and distribution of material?

Jo Twist: Exactly. That's really important and they perform a really important role for our members. But it is a really, really sticky issue. We as a games industry have always been digital, we've always been much more agile than the music industry and the film industry, in terms of the way that the industry evolves in terms of its business models and the way in which we stay one step ahead.

I think that's an area which is really interesting, both personally and for UKIE: new business models and ways of making money, not just in terms of getting finance from games, but making money from your IP. We are far better placed as an industry to do that.

I think the challenges that cloud gaming, and the move to digital generally, place in front of our members in regard to piracy and their IP protection is a great one and I will be making every effort to be part of those conversations that we're already part of, to listen to our members and find out what they want our position to be, what they need most.

Again, it's particularly the smaller developers. Mobile developers for instance - what do they want us to do as their industry body.

Q: It was interesting to see CD Projekt RED pull out of their campaign of legal letters to pirates last week after so many complaints from legitimate customers. It seems that there's just too steep a PR pay-off to pursue people in that way. An interesting conundrum.

Jo Twist: It's a very difficult area, it really is. I'm not really surprised by what's happened in the States [with SOPA] and I have been watching that with great interest.

Q: The reaction against the ESA, after it issued support for SOPA was very strong, with members threatening to leave or boycott E3 - do you think it's possible for a trade body to really ever have a completely unified position which represents its entire membership?

Jo Twist: I think, practically, you need to have a position. Again, it's a listening game for me. I need to meet as many of our members as possible and hear their opinions. We have a duty and responsibility as a trade body to be in the discussions with the other trade associations that are representing other parts of the creative industries - they have very strong opinions.

It's a very difficult one. Probably one of the ones that will keep me awake at night!

Q: I wanted to ask, and I don't mean to cover old ground here, about the possibility of collaborative work between you and TIGA in the future. Is that something you'd be open to?

Jo Twist: I am really keen to collaborate with anyone and everyone. I am a very very collaborative person. I want to keep those dialogues going and to keep that conversation open. There are so many issues that we can't do everything.

We have a very strong leadership role in terms of skills and education, IP and expanding what interactive entertainment actually means in the 21st century - as well as expanding our membership - trying to do the best for our existing developers and publishers but also working out what young indie developers need from us.

I think TIGA has an offering - its five point plan showed us that we can offer complimentary services. It gives more reasons, and a need, to actually join both organisations. Ultimately we're here for the industry as a whole, including those who aren't our members. What we want is what's best for the UK games industry and interactive entertainment as a whole.

It doesn't make sense to replicate some services, but it makes sense to compliment them. It makes sense to have a unified voice when we're both calling for tax breaks and pushing that agenda, making sure that the Government knows what our priorities are. I think we share that same common ground and we should be speaking with one voice.

Q: The traditional distinction was obviously that you represented the publishers whilst TIGA was more developer focused. That line, both in terms of your memberships and the fact that self-publishing has become such a growth area, has become less and less distinct. Do you still see that distinction as being what separates your two bodies?

Jo Twist: Not at all, no. We're here for everyone, even more so from the perspective that I am coming from. I'm very keen, given my background, that we really interrogate what we mean by interactive entertainment - there are so many opportunities to bring in other companies and members that can really enrich what we're doing in the games industry and vice versa.

So really that distinction is irrelevant to me, but it's important that we're making sure that we're serving both, or more than two camps. That we're still giving as many benefits and services as possible that our publishers need, but really understanding the needs of both indie and publisher-owned developers.

Different members need different things from us, so we're keen to offer that suite of benefits to everyone - but that distinction is irrelevant.

Q: Do you think the UK needs a big publisher of its own, in the traditional model?

Jo Twist: I think it can be done without a major publisher, but obviously it would be great if we did have that again. I think if you look at the way TV independent communities have evolved... Channel 4 was set up to grow the independent creative companies and industries - it's done that job and continues to do that job, but obviously as they mature companies will come and suck them up and they become super-indies. It's a cyclical thing.

It's one of these things that may or may not happen. It would certainly be great for the UK games industry but likewise there are really great, fantastic developers who are shouting on the global stage, that's something we should be pushing for as well.

Q: With the necessarily boom and bust style model of employment in games, as an essentially project lead industry, is there a need for a talent-agency style body which can help workers mmove between projects when a studio no longer requires them?

Jo Twist: That's a bloody good idea! I think that's part of the role we play as a trade association, to facilitate that kind of matchmaking, in all senses of the word - whether it be for people who have money, or people who want to look at new business models for investment, matchmaking talent for people who are just coming out of university or school into young companies or big publishers.

Matchmaking on all sorts of levels is something that it's our job to help with as much as possible.

Q: Perhaps involving some sort of mentoring too?

Jo Twist: Mentoring is incredibly important. We have, well, it's not our scheme, but there's the video games ambassadors scheme which we promote to our members, which is going into schools and colleges and sort of doing that sort of thing. Matchmaking at a more senior level, where you're getting mentors in for people who are new in the industry, is absolutely critical.

All of those things are the kinds of things that I'm expecting, over the next three months and speak to members and non-members, all of those things are what I'm expecting people to want and ask me to help provide.

Q: With the continuing evolution of business models towards the purely digital, what responsibility, if any do you feel that UKIE has to bricks and mortar retailers?

Jo Twist: Well obviously we have a responsibility to bricks and mortar retailers, particularly GAME, who are one of our members, they are a crucial part and parcel of the games industry, they always have been.

It's interesting to see how they may evolve GAME, what it actually is as a business. I would love to visit some other countries and see how they've dealt with it there.

Q: Something which has been raised at the Cloud Gaming Conference this week, and several times before, is whether the UK's infrastructure is actually ready for an all digital future. I know that my internet connection, despite ostensibly being 50mb, is not reliable enough that I would buy a machine which relied entirely on cloud or download games. Whose responsibility is it to ensure that the infrastructure is in place? Is there demand in rural areas, or do people just want to check the news and weather, generally.

Jo Twist: Well, if they had better broadband, they might be chatting to their families online more, skyping, video chatting... You know, they'd be doing all of those things which naturally happen when you introduce people who traditionally haven't been seen as your primary customers. They realise what they can do.

I think it's a combination. The era that we're moving into, in terms of connected entertainment and IP connected entertainment is extremely exciting. I think there's quite a big education job to be done, and an evangelising job to be done around what the possibilities for formats are for entertainment as a whole - that's why we're the interactive entertainment industry body - we're interested in where everything is heading.

TV formats have evolved, people are innovating in ways that cloud computing can interact with TV formats - there are all sorts of possibilities that we haven't gone into yet because people are still trying to do YouView.

I think it's one of these things where decision makers need to get excited and be shown the possibilities of what could be achieved, what that could mean for UK business and UK PLC, and that we have to do something about it unless we want to lag behind.

So I think it will come. I think it's a combination of responsibility. I think particularly in rural areas it's a big issue. The infrastructure in some areas is so poor and what you don't want is another digital divide happening. That's already there, but in terms of our industry, that can't happen.